Did Prop 8 Pass? California Prop 8 Results
Did Prop 8 Pass? Here are the latest California Prop 8 Election Results. As of 11 pm PST, Prop 8 numbers are the following.
53% voting in favor of prop 8
47% voting against prop 8
The numbers are courtesy of KNBC Los Angeles reporting only 33% of election results currently in. The website as of 11 PM Los Angeles time here does not state when the results are last updated on their website. However KNBC reported the same margain numbers within the half hour on TV.
Prop 12 and Prop 7 are projected passing by KNBC with approx 65/33% margains with, again, 33% of polls reporting.
*** LIVE UPDATE: 12 midnight ***
As of midnight here in Los Angeles, here is the latest update. On Prop 8, KNBC is reporting the same numbers as one hour ago when this LALATE story was written, now with more votes in.
11 pm PST (KNBC):
53% voting in favor of prop 8
47% voting against prop 8
33% ballots counted
12 midnight PST (KNBC):
53% voting in favor of prop 8
47% voting against prop 8
49% ballouts counted
*** LIVE UPDATE #2: 7:30 AM ***
As of 7:30 am here in Los Angeles, here is the latest update. On Prop 8, KNBC is reporting the following numbers.
7:30 am PST (KNBC):
52% voting in favor of prop 8
48% voting against prop 8
95% ballots counted
Why??
KNBC does not have a live widget to see incoming results. So for updates throughout the night on Prop 8, go here . On the left toolbar, pull down to the Proposition Section.
Post your thoughts.
*** LIVE UPDATE #3: 8:30 AM ***
As of 8:30 am here in Los Angeles, local broadcast TV is reporting over 4 million absentee ballots are not yet counted, placing this proposition still up in the air.
*** LIVE UPDATE #4: 12 NOON ***
A Proposition 8 Protest Rally 11/5/08 7 pm
A major proposition 8 protest rally has just been announced for tonight, 7 pm. For the details just breaking, click here:
http://news.lalate.com/2008/11/05/proposition-8-protest-rally/.
Erin Andrews
Crystal Harris
Shannon Twins
Ikki Twins
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:59 am
so…. at least 50% of California is intolerant. Wonderful….
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:57 am
And over 50% of Californians believe that they deserve more rights than other…that’s great.
Well Yes on 8 got their way…maybe next they will make gays drink from different fountains and sit in the back of the bus!
This is disgusting! Intolerance and hatred won this battle. Way to teach your children to hate anything different than your own little world.
on November 5th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Why is it that you are the one trying to change what I hold sacred, yet I am the intolerant one? What you want is what I have. If you get it, then I don’t get to have it anymore. You need rights, I agree. I am totally in favor of that, but why take mine to get yours? Fight for your own values. Don’t try to take mine away.
on November 5th, 2008 at 7:43 am
How does giving me the right to marry take that right away from you?! Is it that hard to think that we may share common values? It is intolerant to take that right, and that validation, away from thousands of families, none of whom are infringing upon your right to live your life as you please. I just do not understand you people.
on November 5th, 2008 at 8:14 am
5:11am 91% counted Yes 52% No 48%
this is such crap they so scewed the result by lying about it being about teaching it in schools
on November 5th, 2008 at 8:18 am
banning gay marriage is an act of hatress. not love. and the teaching of Jesus are all about love and compassion. if people is so protective of their religious believes, why don’t they declare war against divorce? it is clear in the Bible that divorce is wrong. but nobody complains about it. Instead, they try to keep marriage away from people who loves each other… because marriage is the sacred union between a woman and whoever wins a reality show. or between two teenagers who have to rush it to the altar before the baby pops out. this is just a step back, but not the end of it… Gay marriage is going to happen, sooner or later. just look at what is happening around the world. you people can not stop it.
on November 5th, 2008 at 8:21 am
I just stumbled upon this while trying to find results. I think this is horrible. I had thought California residents would not pass this shitty deal. But, all the ones who think that we are trying to take something sacred from them decided otherwise. Half of California sucks balls right now (not in the literal sense). I live in Nebraska and I was hoping for a great outcome. This is very sad.
on November 5th, 2008 at 8:36 am
I’m extremely dissapointed by this. I had been a California resident all my life until this past summer, when I moved to Oklahoma. It’s a sad day in our country when not only are people descriminated against, but that there are enough sheep-minded intolerant people in what I thought to be the most progressive state in the US.
on November 5th, 2008 at 8:37 am
@Kurt
If Prop 8 failed, I guarantee you, your life would continue exactly as it has been. In no way whatsoever would a single thing be taken away from you. If you value the “sacredness” of your marriage, then celebrate it by living your life and honoring your marriage with virtue. Don’t desecrate it by making it a tool of hate and discrimination.
By the way, gay marriage is legal in other states in the union already, as well as around the world. If the simple fact of it being allowed somehow makes straight marriage less sacred, then I hate to tell you but you are way too late. Somewhere in the world, gay marriage will be allowed and nothing will turn back that clock.
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:18 am
what “you” hold sacred.. and what should be the “sanctity” of marriage.. didnt they teach you in school church and state are seperate?
stop trying to impose your religious views to the masses and think about equality amongst mankind
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Kurt:
How will a gay couple marrying change or take away your rights in any way, shape, or form? How will 2 gay people hurt your marriage to your wife? What right do you have that is being challenged? “All you hold sacred?” Please. I am a straight, engaged female and I fail to see how Steve and Jason getting married next door will hurt or help my engagement in any way.
Listen. If you guys want to make marriage sacred, why don’t you guys stop desecrating it by, oh, I don’t know: letting celebrities get married for 48 hours. Or putting up reality TV shows that claim “Who Wants To Marry a Millionaire” or “Who Wants To Marry a Midget” or “Joe Millionaire” or “My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance” or all those other stupid marriage/dating reality shows. The way I see it, seems to me that STRAIGHT people have been the ones ruining the sanctity of marriage. We have lovely and beautiful privilege we and abuse it and take it for granted.
Marriage is about loving someone and promising and devoting the rest of your life to them, male or female. If my boyfriend and I broke up and I fell in love with a woman, I’d want every right to be able to marry her, just as I can marry a man today.
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:37 am
You all can have your opinions and now you are upset that others who have a diffeent opinion…who’s being hateful. Maybe a bit of “sore loser” coming out in you. Any amount of research in what happened a while back when the MAJORITY of Claifornians, over 4 million people, voted against this already, and our time was wasted yet again to confirm that vote. No one is tryingto hate anyone that is gay. Just go ahead and have your opinions, but don’t bitch when your outvoted. Just get off your butt and help spread your word so next time your vote wins. Its called democracy and you just happened to be outvoted by people with virtues. Don’t start waiving the “Christ loves everyone” card. Last time I checked it was “Love the sinner, hate teh sin.” When will you people stop trying to impose YOUR will to want ot see homosexuality as normal? Its not normal you idiots! Its a predisposition, or tendancy that is wrong. You don;t see me going out and trying to hup my neighbors wife just because i think she is hot and I want to get with her and just because I “have those feelings” that is is right. We all have feelings and tendencies that are not right. Holy crap, learn a little about control….and try to draw a line in teh sand somewhere. You people stand for absolutely NOTHING!
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Does anyone else see that the California constitution says that a ban on same sex marriage is discriminatory. And isn’t prop 8 discriminating against men and women that want to marry whoever they please? Why is this even possible. Ignorance is really bliss, religion is supposed to be separate from state so why are we allowing direct influence form religion that not everyone follows or believes frame our society. Fact: 50% of marriages are not religious ceremonies!!
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:43 am
I just want to make a statement of how proud I am of California right now. People voted for what they feel is right, even with accusations of making decisions based on hatred. Marriage is indeed a sacred union between one man and one woman. I am from Arkansas but I think I have gained a little faith in the rest of America today. This is truly great to see!
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am
D,
Wow you are really one of the most closed minded person’s I have ever met. All of what you said above was based on your common, religious-based biased belief!! Ooh, if I wasn’t such a lady I’d be making you eat a dick. Now lets be civilized and understand that this is only oppression of what is different, what is not your cup of tea.So because you find some book that is supposed to be holy, and it has a lot of good stories and morals in it, that everything in it is un-biased and correct? In your mind it isn’t “hating”, oh but yes it is!! I know what it is, you don’t want to see change! I bet you voted for McCain didn’t you? Tisk, tisk. Boy you people have a lot of growing up to do! Btw it is wrong to impose any of your beliefs on the next, I’m not imposing shit on you by marrying another woman, I’m doing what the fuck I please in my own manner!!
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:11 am
I love how all the YesOn8 people start off by pontificating on who’s intolerant and who’s got sour grapes from the soap box…then summarily descend in to madness, spouting crap about state unions that happen to be called ‘marriage’ being somehow taken away from them if Prop 8 fails, or that somehow the homosexuals who want to get _married_ are indiscriminate sodomites (why would they want to get married, then?).
You want to talk about the sanctity of marriage, let’s talk about John McCain’s marriage[s]. Or, ah, is that a sore subject?
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Please try to follow my logic if you can…Is marriage a legal or religious institution? In a country founded on the seperation of Church and State, it can’t be both. If I get a marriage license and never go to church, it’s legally binding. If I get married in a church and never go to the courthouse, it’s not legal. Therefore, why can’t we require a civil union (the legal part) for everyone, gay AND straight and if you want to run to the church and have a big ceremony, let the church decided if they want to give you a Marriage Certificate which is not binding except in the eyes of the church. As long as we define marriage as a legal and religious contract/agreement we can NEVER acheive equality so let’s change the definition of marriage to be a religious institute and leave the legal issues to civil unions. Does that make sense to anyone because it seems quite clear and logical to me!
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:18 am
So sad for the state of California and the nation. It will only be a matter of time before gay marriage is legal. I was really hoping that California would make a step in the right direction and vote for equality. Just when I thought our country was making progress… I had no idea that one of the greatest and most diverse states is filled with so much hatred and people that have a sense of such entitlement to feel that they should take this right away. Equality is not a privlege.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Kurt and D, go on believing in narrow mindednes, believe in your bible, in denying others privilegdes you think you deserve. Why? What makes you better? intolerance and greed! If you still believe in the exact wording of the bible, you’d stone people who told you the earth was round? Your wonderful country would not even have been discovered . . .
I’m not deying your right to marry, nor your right to divorce, where’s that in the bible? In my opinion everybody has the right to make the same mistakes.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:34 am
You know, there was also a time that the popular opinion of “marriage” was something between a man and woman of the same race, and anything else was wrong. Looking back at that now, don’t you think that’s discriminatory? Separation of church and state has been beaten to death, but it’s true… those who voted based solely on their religious beliefs, thanks a lot for making California look bad… it’s 2008, this shouldn’t be an issue!!
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Less rights Less Taxes
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Once again the “Moral Majority” acts out with intolerance. Hitler would have voted for prop 8, and prop 9 against blacks, 10 for Jews, 11 for Catholics, and against 12 because its what affected him. If you voted for 8, you’re a fucking biggot!
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Marriage is a religious institution. It ALWAYS was, and ALWAYS will be. It doesn’t matter if you’re Muslim, Jew, Christian, WHATEVER, it doesn’t matter because all of those religions denote homosexuality as a sin, therefore, even if a homosexual is “religious”, they are going against that sanctity of marriage even in their own religion. So trying to make it a secular institution is wrong. Someone said something about divorce being against “Christianity” (when in fact, not just Christianity, most religions), well you’re right. Divorce is a secular being as well. So don’t you dare try and make me feel bad for doing what I feel is moral. Because I won’t feel bad. Spare the “separation of church and state” speech, because you are HIGHLY mistaken of this phrases place in history.
By all means, be gay. I really don’t care. However, when you start pushing your morals into my life, there will be resistance. I would expect you to feel the same way if someone tried to push their morals into your life. I would understand.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:48 am
D… your speach is full of hate. and offenses. you are ignorant. and i pitty you.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:53 am
… and to Brian “Those of you who voted on your religious beliefs…”
Of course I’m voting on my beliefs. I cannot and will not vote for my beliefs AND your beliefs. That’s what you SHOULD vote on. I don’t hate anyone who voted for Obama, or No On 8. I really don’t. I was against Obama in the election, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be for him as our president. I think Ron Paul would have been awesome, however, I hope that Obama can do a good job.
It escapes my memory who said this, and forgive the butchering of this quote, as it is more of a paraphrase:
“Politics have become nothing more than a sports game, where people sit in the stands and root for ‘their team’ regardless of what ‘their team’ is doing wrong.”
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:53 am
I am glad prop 8 will pass.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. They create a family by giving birth to a kid. A gay couple can not. This is not discriminating, it’s a fact. You can adopt but it is never the same as giving birth to a kid of your own. I am totally fine with people liking the same sex, but they are pushing it too far. I understand that sometimes being gay is not a choice, but teaching young kids that it is okay to like the same sex is wrong and disturbing.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Carlos - Your speech is full of grammical errors
Look, I don’t expect anyone to agree with me, but it’s my point of view, and I vote based on MY views. I respect the fact that other people have a different way of life. The problem is, I don’t agree with that, so I’ll vote against it. I don’t HATE gay people. I don’t HATE people who do other things I disagree with. When it comes down to it, I will vote in favor of my views.
Here it is, plain and simple:
I think marriage should be between a man and a woman.
If you think otherwise? GREAT! Just don’t get mad at me for having my opinion, man.
Whatever, I don’t think I can get anyone to see my view, so I’m wasting keystrokes.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Lili, it’s not a question of your beliefs. It’s a question of your beliefs being imposed on other people. I’m straight and married. Besides, no law defines marriage as between a man and a woman. Prop 8 proposes to add that definition to the constitution.
In 1920 voting was defined as something only a man could do. We fixed that then, I guess it’s going to take awhile before people are enlightened enough to give gays equal rights.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:16 am
starsarebent - don’t forget the whole concept of marriage has changed through the years. poligamy was accepted in the old testament. arranged marriages in some religions are still accepted. today we understand marriage in a different way, and trust me, nobody wants to impose their believes on you or anyone else. gay people just want to get married because they love their partners. and they can not do it because, for some reason, it upsets you. don’t you see the problem here?
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:18 am
I’m thrilled to see such a wonderful outcome! I’m so happy my children will not learn things such as gay marriage being “ok” in school. I’m thrilled that so many people have morals, and used there right to go and vote for prop. 8!!!! thank you citizens of California!!!! You have made me proud to live here.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:24 am
I can’t believe people think it’s “American” to take AWAY someone’s rights. If this thing passes it will be the FIRST TIME in American history we have actually TAKEN AWAY rights of people. That’s like telling a black person they can’t marry a white person. It’s just WRONG.
It’s not like we’re forcing it down your throat. as if you HAVE to life it. That’s just Crap. We just want to give gays the SAME RIGHTS as EVERYONE ELSE. is that so hard?
And besides, if you and your Church is against it, you can just tell them they can’t get married there; as if they’d want to marry around someone like you anyway.
We’re not taking away ANYONE’S rights, we’re being AMERICAN and GIVING rights to a group of people who ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE EVER.
I’m not doing this for myself, I’m straight. I’m doing this for my family members who are gay and all my gay friends. AND all the gays out there.
This is Discrimination! This is totally unamerican.
Don’t teach your kids discrimination, teach them acceptance!!
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Wow. Just wow.
California has been such a leading example of what can happen when civil rights are finally granted to one of the last unprotected targets of discrimination: gays. Here in Connecticut yesterday, we handily defeated a ballot measure that would have called for a constitutional convention to outlaw gay marriage in our state constitution. It’s here to stay in Connecticut - so for those 10-12 thousand folks whose marriages are about to be declared illegal in California, come on down to Connecticut or Massachusetts, where the “sanctity of marriage” belongs to everybody. Finally.
I can’t believe it, still - since when were rights something we could vote on? I bet if the Prop 8 mentality had been around longer, we would’ve just voted to not grant rights to slaves. We might have also just voted against the Civil Rights movement. Oh, and why bother with a Constitutional Amendment to allow women to vote, when we can just let the American people decide how best to apply equality?
To those who say that the courts “legislate from the bench” by applying equal rights to all, I say this: it is the court that has always been the last refuge of the minority against the tyranny of the majority. To simply overrule that protection - by, of all things, a narrowly-decided popular vote - is to ignore the most important task of the judicial branch of our government. A vote to decide whether rights should apply to all? Martin Luther King Jr. would be ashamed. Most importantly, it is the protection of religious practice that has so often been protected by the courts, especially in the last century. I shouldn’t need to remind those Mormons that supported Prop 8 that it was a series of court decisions, much like the one that granted gays the right to marry in California, that kept them from being legislated out of existence in the 20th century - despite a majority of people that would have voted to deny Mormons any rights at all. And here they are championing the cause of bigotry. We really have come full circle, haven’t we?
I’m married here in Connecticut. I’m a man and I married a woman. My marriage is NOT threatened by gay marriage, anywhere, anytime, anyhow. The “sanctity” of my marriage is not lessened by being shared. In fact, it is enhanced by finally being an institution open to all, instead of just some special privileged club, as these Yes On 8 voters would have it. Come on up, see the fall foliage, and enjoy a culture that has embraced equal rights. But for those of you that voted Yes on Prop 8 - shame on you. You are a throwback to a darker era, a time of ugliness and bigotry that is better off left on the scrap heap of history. I look forward to outliving your discrimination and seeing this nation move toward freedom.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Wh’at next, wanting to marry your dog, cat or donkey? Marriage has always been between a man and woman. This is not hatred, gays already have all the rights as straight people. We just want to keep marraige between a man and women sacred. The intolerate ones are the people who can’t have it their way and try to impose their beliefs on mine and indoctrine our children the gay lifestyle without the parents consent, as what happened in San Fran. SO IN REALITY THE GAYS ARE THE ONES THAT HATE. I love you and will keep you in my prayers.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Carlos-
Totally. I totally see the problem. However, you must understand, it does not upset me. I have gay friends (I know a common thing to say from a straight guy who’s married.) So I see what it’s all about. Marriage is taken lightly so much these days, it’s easy to get lost.
Let me take a break and say this; I don’t know why ANYONE would want to get married in the first place, lol.
Being gay goes against my PERSONAL morals. I feel that it is a sin.(Now I’m not claiming to be free of sin myself. Keep that in mind.) So I will vote (as stated before) for MY morals. If a group of people find it morally wrong to do something that I am doing, I would expect the same reaction from them.
For instance, let’s say I live in Las Vegas where it’s ok to gamble. If a group of people came out and said, “Hey, that goes against my morals, and I want to share my morals with, and protect MY children from having to live with that.” I would be upset that I cannot gamble, but I would understand that this is a touchy subject with many people, and for them to vote on morals is perfectly acceptable.
Would you hate me as a person because I want to gamble? Probably not, Carlos. Just as I do not hate anyone who is gay.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Thank you CA for voting your beliefs. In a democracy the majority wins. I am thankful that the majority agrees that marriage should remain what it was meant to be. Gay people, find another term for it.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I just wanna know how gay marriage will affect people’s famillies. How does it affect you? There’s gay men and women all around you, it’s shown on TV in movies and out on the streets. I’m 16 and currently in High School. Teachers talk a lot about prop 8 and how their against it. It’s pure hate. Not one kid cares if gay marriage is passed. Maybe whats corrupting our world is the older generations of our current time. I can’t wait until my generation grows up and were all allowed to vote and voice our opinions without getting belittled. Oh, and about the school thing. Everyone knows that when you learn about marriage and sex ed. They send a waiver home before teaching starts. So that’s is such a mean way to use children as an excuse. Plus, theres so many gay people in high school, Kids are bound to find out one way or another. I though religion was about love and happines and faith? Guess that’s thrown out the window. Christian people are so hypocritical these days. The reason why the pilgrims came to the us was to practice christianity and be free. I guess america is not like that anymore
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
people don’t WANT to be gay. i tried not to be. it took me time to accept myself, because people kept telling me it was a SIN. For me,it was never a choice. I truly believe that the world is changing and gay marriage is an innevitability. it is going to happen. it is popping all over the world. slowly, but it will happen.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
All I have to say is Prop 8 passes “Whether you like it or not!” Thanks Gavin you made it an easy decision for me…
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
I writing this comment this morning with mixed feelings. I’m at peace knowing California made the right choice, and pained to think many dear friends are gravely disappointed. What they saw as a chance for “happiness” and “equality” was yanked from them by a majority who seems to be intolerant and hateful. I am truly sorry for the hurt they are feeling.
I am personally against gay marriage because of the bigger picture. You may ask, “Don’t you want gays to be happy? Don’t you want equality? Don’t you want justice?” Yes! I want all of those. I want those things for Americans today and forever. Devastation will inevitably come to civilizations that embrace immoral behaviors. One hundred years ago the idea of this debate would have been appalling and ridiculous. If we choose to desecrate marriages in this way now, what will we accept in one hundred years in the name of “equality?” I’m well aware that there are some who already desecrate marriage in their own ways. By saying gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry isn’t saying I side with those who choose to treat marriage lightly. I’m standing up for marriage as it should be. Allowing homosexual marriages would just be another step down the wrong path. A path that would inevitably open the door to greater pain and devastation for society at large.
My opponents on this issue often cite examples of how marriage is already being flushed down the toilet. Since it’s already no big deal in the minds of so many, just let everybody do what they want, right? Wrong! If marriage were truly no big deal, we wouldn’t be having this argument. Homosexuals can see the beauty and sacred nature of marriage and long to have it in their lives. They see how important it is but what they don’t understand is that God’s sanctification is part of the package. Whether they have the stamp of legality or not, their relationships will never be the same as it is todaya marriage between a man and a woman because they will not have God’s blessing.
If two people want visitation rights that’s fine. If they want recognition for their relationship and commitment, they can have it. No argument, amendment, or proposition will ever change the divine purpose and qualifications for marriage. Mark my words and the majority’s vote: No society will ever thrive if they choose to shun the divine qualifications for marriage.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Get over it, everyone. What a bunch of babies. If you want to be together, then BE TOGETHER. Nobody is stopping you. Make love, adopt if you must, go on vacations, buy a house together, whatever! Many of us think it is very disgusting. Let us have that right!!! Stop throwing your perverted ideals in our faces and just go to bed already!
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
So murder is all around me, in TV shows etc, it does not mean that is ok. Just because someone believes something is right, IS IT? What makes something OK, what gives a person their moral values?
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
May all of us live in peace, open-heartedness, and with compassion. May we all enjoy the freedom to live our lives with happiness and freedom.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
RK- You’re wrong. Gays do not have all the same rights straights have- hence the need for equal marriage rights. And that line about marrying a dog, etc.. is insulting to gay people and to straight people alike.
starsarebent- lumping gay rights with the right to gamble is ridiculous. One is not being discriminated against if one can’t gamble. Sheesh. Are you serious?
And Mike- This issue will not go away until full equal marriage rights are the law of the land all across this country. Equality will happen. Ever hear of the “tyranny of the majority” or the Bill of Rights? In other words, the majority should never have the right to take a minority’s rights away. That’s the American way.
I am heartened that there are still 4 million ballots out there to be counted. Do not lose faith everyone, it ain’t over yet! Regardless of the outcome, equal marriage rights are coming. Equality and truth will always win out over bigotry and lies in the end. It’s just a matter of time.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
i don’t mind if you want to be gay or lesbian that is your choice. the problem is that gay people want to recognized as another ethnic group when in fact if you are white, black asian, whatever you can be gay. being gay is nothing but a sexual preference that should be kept in the privacy of your bedroom. I DON’T WANT MY CHILDREN TO BE TAUGHT ABOUT BEING GAY. because even though you gay people say that it won’t be taught in schools it will happen. you want to recruit children into your lifestyle. children do not need to be exposed to your lifestyle. if children as they progress into growth and lives happen to embrace being gay then let it come naturally to them; not influenced.
ultimately being gay is not something that we are born with. none of the gay scientists that tried to prove this fact were ever proven right. being gay is a choice just like it would be for anyone that wants to sleep around with anyone whether they are man or woman.
i’m simply tired of gays parading practically naked down during the gay pride parade in front of children. being gay is about being attracted to someone of the same sex. kids are kids who do not need to know about sex until they mature into it.
either way i voted to ban gay marriage because it is the right thing to do. the other reasone is because if gays want special protection because they are gay and want to censor what is taught in churches. gays want to be recognized politically and that is shameful. keep your bedroom practices out of politics.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
The vast majority of people don’t understatnd the fundamental issues. They have been lead to believe that gays are attacking them. People in general don’t understand that gay couples get hit with inhereted taxes during Last Will provisions and That as we live shoulder to shoulder maintaining households paying our share of property taxes etc, and contribute to the community at large. The State has no obligation to those gay households. We have alloud the blurr and shock of the church to project this into a issue of religion…It should never been there to begin with…It’s not about the gays comming to a church where they arent welcomed to distroy your perfect marriages. It’s about bearing your brothers burdens. We have alloud the Christians to hyjack the issue and turn it into a religious battle…We say seperation of church and state but it is always easy to get simple minded christians swayed and move away from the real issues below the surface…My God loves you and I, even if Your God does’nt love Me, Amen
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Everyone has someone in their family that is gay, and believe it or not those family members deserve to be loved and respected by you. Everyone has their right to their beliefs but at the same time love should not have limitations. Have you ever tried to control love? Have you ever had someone say to you, you can not love that person. If you have, you still loved that person. People should have the right to love who they love no matter what kind of gentailia their body accommodates after all love radiates from heart to heart not from the inside out, not the outside in. People loving people should have the same rights no matter the gender. God loves everyone, He doesn’t love just straight people that love and marry. Seems as though people pick out what they want to from the bible to feed their own hatred against gays or people that are different from them. The bible also says judge not or you shall be judged. How would not supporting gay marriage take anything away from you? How would not supporting a family member that you claim to love that is gay be loving them and wanting their happiness? How dare you want the control over someone elses happiness. Maybe people like you need to look inside and see how much you really love yourself.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Wayne- I was using that as an example did not mean to offend anyone. All I was saying is where does it stop? Other groups will want this so called “equality” also. where is my rights if I do not want the gay marriage. You believe in gay marriage, I do not, what makes you right and me wrong? I do not hate gays. I think that some things should be left along because one’s own faith and not be called a biggot, a hate mongle or what ever else you may label people who don’t agree with you. From my view I say you are the hateful people.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Shannon it would change everything if gay hasthe right please take a moment and think. The bible saids it is wrong also pasters will have to married them they want to be married in their church a paster will not have a choice if they turn them down some like that cam sue the chruch saying their are rases. Also read how a guy is sueng the bible because it has caused him mentail destress because he is gay. Not only that ok people will not be able to live confortable when he schools will be pushing this on our children. I feel those wantto be gay be gay but please don”t push i down our throut. Married is between man and a women and god saids in his word. Let me tell you they have more rights the a person who disablities they canget jobs hey a disblities person it is hard to get a job trust me. I have a friend who is disabled and she would her husband would love to adopted but her city wont let her.
Talk about change if no passes
I agree with you jose
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
The bottom line is that people casted their votes on what is important to them (morals and Ideals). Whether or not you believe gay marrige is right or wrong, the votes are in. The majority of Californians think that marrige should be between a man and a woman. If you disagree with this next time be more active in getting your morals/ideals across and the next result might be different. Saying that those who voted for prop 8 are bigots is flat out slander. How can a person voting for what they believe is right for them (and please dont counter with “well Hitler thought waht he was doing was right” or any others of the like)as bigitry. Unfortunatley for homosexuals this country was founded upon Christain morals and a large population obviously still agrees with our founding fathers principles. In every election there are hotly contested issues, but dont allow your passion overshadow your better judgement when posting comments. Name calling and finger pointing wont change what has passed, only your future efforts will.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Gay marriage has been legal for the last six months, or so, but only about 1% of the gay population have taken advantage of it. Interesting.
I don’t know about the requirement to “teaching gay marriage in schools” is valid or not. However, it’s a fact that marriage IS TAUGHT (whether the teacher is forced to or not) in schools, and parents should keep the right to teach thier children what they want.
Also, if gay marriage is forced upon society, it opens the doors for priests, rabbi’s, and bishops to be sued for refusing to marry gay couples. Fertilization doctors (who’s religious beliefs conflict with gay marriage) could be sued if they refutse to impregnate lesbian couples.
These last two reasons alone are why I voted Yes on 8.
I personally don’t agree with gay marriage, and I hope this proposition passes because I’m afraid of what will happen if it doesn’t. I don’t want my church to be attacked for having different beliefs. It cannot be denied that to a lot of people, being gay is a sin. Whether YOU believe it or not, SOME PEOPLE DO!!! They should not be attacked for that.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
I traveled to California with my partner of 5 years to get married on the beach in San Francisco 2 months ago. We own a house together and share all expenses. Marriage is simply a way for us to protect our assets. It also allows us to make health care decisions for our spouse when they are seriously sick. Those who voted against Prop 8: do you think it is right that if my partner was on his death bed, that I wouldn’t be allowed in the room because I am not “legally” family? These are the kinds of protections that we are looking for.
I have many friends and neighbors who are married and our marriage hasn’t affected their marriages at all.
If you want to use the Christian Bible to say that your point of view is better than mine, then let me ask you this: have you ever eaten shellfish (shrimp, etc.)? Because in the very same sentence where some claim the Bible condems homosexuality, it also condems people who eat shellfish. It’s in the same sentence and therefore deserves the same level of punishment. So if you have ever eaten shrimp, you have committed the same level sin as those of us who are gay. The Bible also advises how much you can sell your daughter into slavery for. Interesting how some things can be taken historically and others are not?
I grew up Catholic and I think that the Bible teaches some great things. I think it’s a great collection of stories that help people decide what is right and wrong. What I remember from going to 8 years of Catholic school and many more years of going to Church is that Jesus said, “Turn the other cheek.” and “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” I think that is the most important lesson that the Bible teaches and it is unfortunate that so many Christians have lost their way and forgotten the Golden Rule.
Also, either you believe in Creation or you believe in Evolution. If you believe in Creation then that means that God created all, including me and my gay husband. If God did not create me, then how would I have come into being? Is it possible that God only created some and not others?
I believe that God will take me into heaven because I am a good person. I live a good life and I contribute to society in a positive way. I also do not impose my will on others and do not judge others as only God has the right to judge us. I feel sorry for those who believe otherwise.
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I AM A STRAIGHT 20 YEAR OLD WOMAN, BORN AND RAISED IN L.A., CURRENTLY LIVING IN LONDON. I KNOW COUNTLESS GAY PEOPLE AND I HAVE THEM IN MY FAMILY AND I CAN TELL YOU I’VE NEVER MET A GAY PERSON WHO WAS HATEFUL OR DISCRIMINATORY AGAINST ME FOR BEING STRAIGHT. I AM DISAPPOINTED IN ALL THE PEOPLE WHO VOTE YES ON 8. GAY PEOPLE ARE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, THEY WORK, THE STUDY, THEY HAVE PHDs AND THE HAVE FAMILIES. AND THEY ARE SOME OF THE MOST LOVING PEOPLE I’VE EVER MET! WHY CAN’T THEY GET MARRIED? BECAUSE OF RELIGION? I AM NOT RELIGIOUS I BELIEVE IN GOD AND I HAVE MY OWN PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. AND I DONT THINK GOD IS A BIGOT. WHATEVER MEN WROTE THE BIBLE WERE BIGOTS. I BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS ALL FABLES, THERE ARE SOME GREAT LESSONS IN IT BUT FOR THE MOST PART IT IS MAN MADE. AND THERE HAS BEEN NO DEMONSTRATION OF RELIGIOUS MORALE ALL THROUGHOUT AMERICAN HISTORY, SO WHY ALL OF A SUDDEN ARE INTOLERANT PEOPLE TRYING TO CRY RELIGION?
ARE GAY PEOPLE THE ONES FUCKIN UP THE WORLD? SERIOUSLY?
THE FACT IS YOU DONT LIKE IT AND YOU’RE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT, AND YOU’RE USING RELIGION AS A SCAPEGOAT TO AVOID THE REAL ISSUE…YOU’RE A HATEFUL BIGOT. IF YOU’RE SO RELIGIOUS WHY THE FUCK CANT YOU JUST TURN THE OTHER CHEEK? BEING HATEFUL IS AGAINST RELIGION AS WELL. I WILL FIND IT OVERLY HILARIOUS IF 10 YEARS FROM NOW SOME OF YOU WHO VOTED YES ON 8 DISCOVER THAT YOU ARE GAY. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TAKE AWAY THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS. TO EACH HIS OWN, IT DOES NOT DIRECTLY AFFECT YOU SO GET OVER IT BIG BABIES! IT’S SO PATHETIC. I LOVE ALL THE GAY PEOPLE I KNOW AND I FEEL FOR THEM. IMAGINE HOW THEY MUST FEEL BEING INVITED TO WEDDINGS, KNOWING THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO HAVE ONE. WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO SAY THEY CANT BE HAPPY AND LIVE THEIR LIVES TO THE FULLEST? THEY ARE HUMANS TOO. AND WHATEVER HAPPENED TO HUMAN RIGHTS? AND JUST LIKE YOU CANT HELP BEING HETEROSEXUAL, THEY CANT HELP BEING HOMOSEXUAL. I AM HOPEFUL BECAUSE OF OBAMA, BUT I STILL SEE THAT RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION ARE ALIVE AND WELL, ALONG WITH IGNORANCE, INTOLERANCE, BIGOTRY, FOOLISHNESS, SELFISHNESS AND THAT BULLSHIT “HOLIER THAN THOU” ATTITUDE THAT PEOPLE HAVE THE NERVE TO HAVE, WHEN THEY ARE THE MOST HATEFUL ONES AND THE BIGGEST THREAT TO HUMAN RIGHTS AND EQUALITY. IT IS TIME TO LET GO OF THAT MENTALITY BECAUSE IT IS NOT FAIR.
LIVE AND LET LIVE OR IT WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU!
on November 5th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
To Chris…first of all I am a christian and I will tell you that there is nothing that can replace a love between a man and a woman. Chris how do you think you got here on earth. Not the stork. You can only adopt other children so long before you run out. I just want to keep the marriage between the woman and man sacred. By the way our school district does not send out letters stating they are going to teach about same sex. They have not done that yet. You know us old people want what is right for our children and the forseekable future. Religion is just a part of it. A major part of it. This Prop 8 already passed once and 4 Supreme court justices decided to take it in there own hands and over turn it. You call that FAIR. I certainly don’t especailly when the people spoke out the first time. You want to raise your kids on morals and values and try to do it the way you have been taught. 16 huh? You still have a long way to go to see the rest of this world we are so lucky to live here. the USA in which our Presidents before were all GODLY Men, This country is built by GOD and no other….MAKE SURE THAT YOU THANK GOD EVERY NIGHT THAT YOU ARE A LIVE AND EATING. ANd Above all quit taking things for granted. It could be worse, instead of persecuting the Christian religion why don’t you pick up a Bible and study the WORD.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I feel like yesterday we won a huge victory. Barack Obama was voted the 44th President of the United States and now change and hope is inevitable. I won’t go into detail about politics, but last night, after the votes were counted, my excitement was followed by disappointment. With the notion of hope still fresh on our minds, the people of San Francisco were crushed after Proposition 8 drew closer and closer to passing. It was so hard to watch an African American man elected to office, as a symbol of equality for this nation, and moments later, equality was stripped from citizens who deserve it just as much as anyone else. I watched a straight woman, with a husband and children break down into tears. She was angry, and rightfully so. She told me that she just didn’t understand- how could some of the same people who fifty years ago couldn’t marry who they loved and have the same rights as other Americans because of the color of their skin, vote on a law that would deprive others of that same equality, and why? Because of the who they love? How is this any different than the civil rights movement? How can we, in the midst of all this hope and eagerness for change and justice and peace, continue to oppress our neighbors and friends and family? Who are they hurting? My prayers are with the men and women of California, who have fought so long and hard for the right to love, who were so close, and yet last night, the display of their commitment to each other and the families they have built became null. Last night, the Castro was filled with people rejoicing in the victory of Barack Obama, then crushed by the victory of those who continue to fight against equality. I pray they stay motivated and don’t give up the fight. I hope they keep the rings on their fingers and press on, not seeing this as a defeat, but just another obstacle. I pray they don’t give up hope and faith.
I felt so honored to be such a huge part of history yesterday. And I know the day will come when alters are crowded with people celebrating their love and freedom. I’ll be honored then too, no matter who I am with or if I have children or am married or single, to cast my vote and watch tolerance prevail over hate. I didn’t like California at first. But every day I learn more and more that a lot of the people here really carry something unique with them. People are involved. Pastors and ministers and men with wives and children support their neighbors without second thought, because they feel strongly that it is cruel and unjust to discriminate under the law for any reason. I was watching the polls with my dad last night. If you know my dad, you know he’s a pretty straight laced guy- very opinionated, sometimes even a little brash, and hardly ever serious without an undertone of sarcasm. We watched the numbers together and when Prop 8 ran across the bottom of the screen, with numbers leading in favor of “yes” I got a little confused. Thinking for a moment that a “yes” would grant equal rights to all I jumped off the couch and said “So we won? It passed”. In a very solemn tone he said “I think we were looking for a no”. In my haste to dial all my friends in Texas and proclaim the good news to everyone I forgot that “yes” would imply the ban and “no” would secure our rights as Americans. I got angry. I could feel hot tears rising to my eyes and I just wanted to look everyone who voted yes in the eye and ask them why? Why do you think same sex couples are going to ruin the sanctity of marriage? You want to know what’s ruining the sanctity of marriage? The divorce rate. The fact that so many people take this sacred union for granted- marrying once, twice, three, four times and getting divorced because they either rushed into it or they’re too fucking lazy to work it out. Because to them its no big deal. We can grant those heterosexual couples with the right to things like pre-nups, to make their divorce transitions more comfortable. That is ruining the sanctity of marriage. Reality television shows like “Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire” and “For Love or Money” advertise marriage as a tool for wealth and selfishness and greed and lust, while there are millions of people in California who want to marry for one reason alone- love. I wanted to say to them “Look you hateful pricks, MY DAD VOTED NO ON PROP 8!!!!”
What amazes me still, is that I know the very people who were affected by the hate and discrimination of proposition 8, will not rally and fight back with more hate. I know that God will furnish them with the peace that surpasses all understanding, and like the oppressed before them, they will overcome.
Stay Hopeful California.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
The idea that this is a new day and the old ways don’t apply anymore is ludicrous. “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” So what we are saying is that we know better how to do things now and the people who built our democracy and built our nation were wrong. Someone said the kids these days don’t care about homosexuality. That statement is the problem. The kids don’t care, because they have been taught not to care by parents, governments and the morally bankrupt people of today’s society. Change is sometimes good. Advancement is sometimes good. Sacrificing your morals and values for the sake of progress is not progress, it is regression.
If you don’t have belief in something, then what do you have? This country was not founded on the separation of church and state. It was founded on the staunch belief in God, the separation came later. In my opinion the reason that homosexuals are so obsessed being able to get married is because they know what they are doing is wrong and they want to be justified. So, if everyone says it is okay, their actions become substantiated in their own lives and to the people around them. They can then be relieved of the guilt they feel for the immoral actions.
I agree with what starsarebent has said about hating the sinner not the sin. I am definitely not without sin myself and would not want people to hate me because of my bad decisions. I absolutely do not hate homosexuals. I also will not sacrifice my beliefs so that someone else can try to change black and white to a shade of gray. BTW, I have two mother-in-laws and I love them both very much and would do anything for them. However I do not agree with their lifestyle.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
This is amazing. I understand that those who support Prop 8 are acting out of fear and ignorance. That’s ok, but let’s work to avoid spreading this condition. If Prop 8 is not supported, which it certainly should not be, you do not lose any rights. This is coming from a married man, in a legal, traditional marriage. I wholeheartedly believe all human beings should be treated equally! That means you are allowed your personal beliefs and you may love who ever you want how ever you want. This has no effect on my traditional marriage.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Prop 8 is unconstitutional. Equal rights for everybody!
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
i voted yes on 8 and proud of it. equal rights for everyone including the terrests that destroyed our country?
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
I am an ally, and I think anyone who is for prop 8 is ridiculous. Gay people not allowed to be married? So basically you don’t want gay people to have block parties, bbq’s, and fight with their spouse over finances like straight married people do?
Then you have some problems.
I can’t believe America can’t accept gays, lesbians, bisexuals, or transgenders. This is what people fought for in summer of 69 at Stonewall. It’s not fair they dont get the same rights.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Some of you,
like “D”
are so twisted I feel like helping to pay for your education. You are really sad and unfortunate.
I hear you say, “No one is tryingto hate anyone that is gay,” and I understand that you don’t need to try, for you it just comes naturally.
Enjoy your next book-burning, KKK meeting, or wherever it is you’re off to. Let me know if you want to grow into a productive human being and I’ll chip in!
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
To Jen,
Are you really comparing homosexuals to *terrorists*? I’m curious as to what makes you think that way. Care to expand?
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
the crusades are over. long gone are the days when the christians invaded every free nation trying desperately to force the bible and its beliefs down everyones throat. the fight against gay marriage is a christian fight. im not christian. last time i checked this was america. and in america we have freedom of religion. just because christians believe something, doesnt mean the rest of us have to follow it. and if this country was founded on christianity and its values, then how does rape, murder, thieft, kidnaping, and slavery fall into christian values? thats what this country was founded on when christians stole it and its people instead of sharing it. every time the christian agenda is affraid of a culture or people or belief, they just kill everyone. i read the bible twice, and me and jesus couldnt find permission for that anywhere.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Those who are thinking that support of Proposition 8 comes from people of religious faith against those who have no religious committment forget what religion is: it is the binding of oneself to one’s ultimate. For some it is their own “heart”, their passions; their temple is perhaps the movie houses celebrating sexual freedom; their source of hope for change is man; their offerings go for indulging in pleasure; and their method of doing missions for their god is ultra-liberal politics. This can be a fundamentalism of its own and sometimes exhibits more intolerance than what some suppose is found in all fundamentalism.
I would hope that those who vote for Proposition 8 do so for some of the following reasons:
1. Homosexual behavior and marriage is a form of suicide: if every marriage were of this kind, the nation
would eventually disappear from lack of children. The state has a duty to preserve and promote life.
2. Homosexual behavior and marriage is an unnecessary expense to the state: the average life span of the
homosexual male is 41, far below the 73 to 75 of the average male in the USA. The American Public
Health Association reports that more than 3-4ths of all homosexuals acquire a sexually transmitted
disease at least once in their life time. Now since the state takes measures to reduce hospital bills and
Medicare bills by penalizing those who don’t wear seat belts, and since we imprison those who ruin
their own lives and others lives when taking hard drugs , is there any logic to the state promoting or
honoring homosexual behavior which harms the people doing it, and costs those around them physical
and mental agony?
3. Homosexuality is contrary to nature: One of my doctor friends recently said that the act of inserting
the agent of generation into the place of feces elimination is very dangerous because of all the bacteria
there, and because the agent of generation is so easily infected. Most people have a natural aversion
to even discussing such a distorted act. Why would the state want to promote such unnatural activity,
by giving it special legal support?
4. “Unnatural activity?” Who has a right to say what is contrary to nature in our days of postmodern
philosophy and relativism? Well, who has a right to say how to keep a car in “good health”? Its
designer and maker, of course, who gives the owner a manual concerning oil change, tire pressure, etc.
So with the human body and marriage: God, the designer and maker of sex and marriage, revealed its
proper use in his manual the Bible. It is not homophobia but theophobia (the fear of God) which leads
me to point out that God “created them male and female”, & “he shall cleave unto his wife”. God
created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. (Genesis 1 and 2). God loved this plan so much that he
calls homosexual behavior an abomination in Leviticus 18:22 and warns that no homosexual will enter
heaven unless they repent (I Corinthians 6:9).
5. In the record of man’s history, we learn that God was pleased with governments that fought against
homosexual behavior. God said of one such government that its king did that which was “right in the
sight of the Lord.” And in the very next verse we are told what deeds this king did which were right,
the FIRST of which was he “put away the homosexuals from the land.” I Kings 15:11,12. Of course
we are no longer a theocratic state as was Israel, but God has not changed in his view of the beauty and
good of heterosexual marriage, nor in his consideration of homosexual activity as against nature and a
perversion: see post-theocratic times in Romans 1: 26, 27 where God talks of this act as “degrading
passion” and “unnatural”.
6. But some still insist that homosexual behavior is “natural”, because some are born with a genetic pre-
disposition for it. Witness, they say, the research of Simon Levee and Dean Haymore. Well, the
research of Dean Haymore is open to question, since he was a homosexual activist. Moreover a
colleague of Haymore (as exposed in the Chicago Tribune) accused him of deliberately excluding data
which did not support his thesis. Dr. Evan Ballaban of the Neurosciences Institute in San Diego
concurs that Haymore’s research was seriously flawed by its methods and its basic assumptions. In a
recent Wall Street Journal article, 5 secular psychologists wrote that up to 50% of homosexuals who
seek treatment experience significant improvement, and I know people who have been completely
cured of this perverse desire, are married in a heterosexual way, and have children.
For all these reasons, the state should not listen to 2% of its population, its wealthy
gay men whose wealth and willingness to distort the truth give them such seeming power.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
i am a christian and a straight man.
obviously there have been more wars and killing in the name of religion than anything else. the majority of christians, and christian leaders in particular, seem to have no trouble setting aside the teachings of christ when it suits their personal interests.
i still believe in christ and his teachings and i am sure he would oppose prop 8. he would find its being discussed at all deeply saddening, but would be patient and loving toward those people that fear freedom for all.
you cannot be a true christian and justify war. that is impossible, because christ taught us better than that.
you cannot be a christian and deny gay people the right to marry. christ taught us better than that.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Geez, I can’t believe the amount of absurdity proponents of Prop 8 are able to generate to validate their way of rationalizing this issue. The only ‘good’ thing to come out of a final outcome that passes Prop 8, is that now perhaps it will finally be taken to the Supreme Court (of the US, not Calif), where it will most assuredly be overturned, and non-discrimination of marriage will become a national change, as was the case of Roe vs. Wade, and thus relieving any and all ’state-by-state’ decision making, at least in my opinion.
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
net time drug addicts would also be fighting for equal rights.. marriage should and would be between one man and one woman
on November 5th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Are you trying to spell, “terrorist,” Jen?
You poor ignorant thing.
Maybe I can chip in for your tuition too.
I can forgive you for voting for Prop 8, you know not what you do.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
you cant MAKE everyone believe what you believe. it is ok if you are religious or athiest or spiritual or taoist for that matter. if you think gay marriage is a sin or against your beliefs or principles, then dont get gay married. you have that right. thats the beuty of this country. if you dont shop on sunday because you are latter day saint, that is your right. noone is MAKING you go to the store. what you dont have is the right to close all the stores because you felt in your heart that the mormon teachings were right. how can you tell a catholic person they can no longer shop on sunday? or a jewish person they HAVE to celebrate christmas? or a gay person they cant get married.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Thank you Clem for proving my point so quickly and eloquently…drug addicts fight for equal rights… And which rights are they now being deprived of?? I believe they can marry already, and even bring drug addicted children into the world. What else do you think they are lacking?
And the absurdity continues. Thanks again Clem.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
The Only reason it passed is because statically more conservatives vote than liberals. I honesty think if everyone really voted it would have ruled in favor of no. The fact this even was brought to a vote breaks my heart its every ones right to fall in love and have marriage laws protect and strengthen their marriage, I hope we get a chance again in four years to vote on this. My Boyfriend and I would love to see his sister able to share the same god given right to love and marry just as we can, its more than a label its laws that protect and help a married couple, if one dies, if one gets hurt there are so many things than just the label!
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Interesting things to think about:
I appreciate the blessing and prayers that my “Straight” friends offer to me, like wise I offer to them every day. My friends and family as it grows every day, I pray that their 1st or 17th newborn child does not end up “gay”. What I find more fascinating is the dialogue between gay and straight individuals succumbing to issues on morality and values, and sinfulness. This whole issue about equality with or without a church has a much bigger picture than we in California will ever be able to come to imagine, or so I hope it does change. I am sure some where there is a blog that is comparing the new president elect, a black man, to those before him, all white men, and just how morally corrupt our country has become. If it isnt the color of our skin, it is the difference of our religious beliefs, or preference to whom we “choose” to love, these issues will always be a key to making a “Change”! Change is scary for anyone, gay or straight, sinful or sin free. Today I celebrate with my openly gay black friend who just by the color of his skin kept saying I never thought I would live to see this day. I tell him “you did” and others will as well! As long as the sanctitiy of marriage is upheld and the men and women continue to procreate, creating thousands of beautiful babies who will grow up to be straight or gay, no matter what color they are, or what religiion they grow into, will also be more “accepting” and more understanding, with out the cause to answer the question, “what makes you like you are? How can you be that way?”
Finally, what I am excited, most is the narrow margin of this prop 8 passing. For those of you who celebrate the passing, by all means go ahead and celebrate today, come tomorrow when this issue comes again, the idea of change is inevitable and most likely going to happen just as quickly as the first black man became my President! I am so proud of that! I still love my straight and gay friends! God bless us all!
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
maybe in four years we will be able to us the ’straight’ bathroom and drink out of the ’straight’ water fountain.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Atheist heterosexuals can get married.
Would yes on 8 supporters also vote yes on a constitutional ammendment banning atheists from marrying? I mean, obviously their marriages are not sacred. In fact, they choose to have a non-sacred marriage. Obviously you cannot make this law in the US because it is explicitly unconstitutional.
However, pretend we were in a different country, where more power was given to voters than the constitution. Would you support a ban on atheist marriages because they are not sacred?
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
You people just don’t get it. Throughout history every civilization who has ok’d an alternate perverted lifestyle, the civilization crumbled shortly after that.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
TO JEN-
You are seriously ignorant comparing marriage to terror, terrorist should be imprisoned for trying to hurt our American people, for oppressing their own people. Gays should not since they are only trying to love, how is falling in love a bad thing.. .How does it harm your marriage? If I worship Satan I can get married , I would think that is far worse if I am a terrorist I can get married, but that’s ok. These are peoples personal choices they have nothing to do with you or ur marriage live and let love homies this is completely absord
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
to RK-
like catholic priests? or polygamists? or any of the ‘religions’ that preach one thing and do another behind closed doors?
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Thank you, RK
for that ideal depiction of fear and ignorance
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
they just keep putting thier foot in thier mouth dont they?
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Just commenting on the facts of history. The truth hurts!!!
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
You people arguing for prop 8 are a sad, sad bunch of people. I can’t believe you exist this day in age… listening to you is very disheartening.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
the facts of history are that christians murdered and raped thier way through history. get a book.
gay people can get married legally in many countries. and have been able to do so for a very long time.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Sounds like you could use some tutoring, RK.
Poor thing. I’m happy to oblige.
That rattling sound must be your tiny brain up there.
It’s ok, we’ll work on it.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Homosexuality is a perversion just like rape,incest & pedifials, it’s a perverted way of life. Christian values are a way of life but yet you can’t teach that in schools it’s about Love isn’t it. Thank God Ca. still has values. Why don’t we just let people molest little kids, oops that is wrong isn’t it. but it’s the same perversion as homosexuality period.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
that wins the uneducated statement of the day! what christian values? the ones that founded this country? like rape, murder, thieft, abuse? or the ones the priests use on little boys? when an adult molests a child of the same sex, it doesnt make them gay, stupid. its a phsycological control issue.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
and “jd” is saying nothing.
It’s clear that the problem is ignorance and the cure must be education.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
what can you say to the truth?
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Don’t respond to the trolls people. We’re better than them.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Congradulations California for standing up for decency! Being gay is a sexual perversion. Just because so many people consider being gay as their “normal behavior” does not make it right. Immorality in whatever form, and accepted by whatever group, is wrong. Some day, maybe soon, we will understand this. That will certainly be a great and terrible day.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Ya Griffin, like the education you force on our children in kindergarten , 1st grade etc. perversion. you people have no clue. You call us names but you people are the ones who are intolerate and very hatefull. You try to take over what we consider sacred and Holy. You are very confused.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
thier lack of intelect is the best support FOR same sex marriage.
i wonder why they’re so interrested in our sexualality in the first place. . . . .
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
you are trying to take over what I consider sacred and holy. how is that ok?
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
we arent taking anything from you. its the other way around.
on November 5th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
You are mis-informed. Sorry for your ignorance. Should I write more slowly?
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
I’m a straight female. I have a lot of friends that are part of the Queer community. Actually, 2 of them just got married over the weekend. Even if I never met any of them, I’d still vote No. People should have the right to marry the person they love. There’s also another really good argument.
Let’s say I was “married” to a woman. Not legally, since there’s a ban on gay marriage… One day, I’m crossing the street and some drunk driver runs a red light and hits me. I’m unconscious and bleeding, the paramedics take the to the hospital, but the doctors can’t do anything until a family member or spouse signs the forms. My ‘wife” wouldn’t be recognized as my spouse. None of my family members can get to me in time and I die.
There wouldn’t be a problem if I was married to a man.
Does that seem fair to you???
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Okay; so I hear all the screaming about rights and religion and feelings and love.
Marriage is more than a regious thing. It is more than a couple living together in love. The purpose of a man and a woman marrying in a long term, (hopefully for life) relationship is to bind the couple together so they have a safe and loving home where they can raise children. We can claim rights and hatred and adopt and even get surgeries, but biology requires that a man and woman get together and both, together raise healthy children and create the future.
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
No on Prop 8 proponents voted on what they believe is right. We did the same when we voted yes. What I don’t get is why we are branded as intolerant when we vote for what we believe. YOU are equally as guilty of intolerance.
I do discriminate…I would not hire a registered sex offender to babysit my 4 year old daughter. Is that also being intolerant and discriminating?
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
I have not read many of the comments above. I would just like to speak a moment about the issue of public schools and the teaching of sexual preference in them.
I attend a private university in a different state now, but every single year of my public education was spent in a conservative town in California. My public high school had top test scores in the region, and I was very fortunate to attend there.
Even though most of the students and their parents were conservative, the teachers were extremely liberal, and they were extremely outspoken about their personal views on sexual preference and on other personal values. They spouted their beliefs as fact, and did not tolerate any discussion on the matter. If there were students in the class who believed differently, they were not allowed to speak openly about those beliefs.
My experience from public school in California was very negative because the teachers were not open-minded to their students’ beliefs. Even though there ARE laws that give students the option to opt out of the health/sex education, it is extremely difficult to do so - not on a legal matter, but a social one. For example, I was in an Advanced Placement English Literature class my junior year, and my teacher wanted us to read a book that is widely known to be an extremely controversial book because of the way it portrays sex and marriage. Even though the teacher said we could opt out of reading the book, the negative consequences of not reading the book were very high, both academically and socially. The teacher basically said, “Now, you can opt out of reading this book if you want, but I would highly recommend against it. This is the book that we will be discussing in class for the next three weeks, and 50% of the final will be based on this book. Of course, you could read another book and go to the library during class the next 3 weeks, and I will give a different final to you - but you will have to read the book on your own. Ok, so who doesn’t want to read this book? Raise your hand.”
From my experiences (and there were many other experiences just like this), teachers are not flexible. Even if the teacher had said, “If you want to read the other book, discuss it privately with me after class,” it would be obvious to all students when a particular student goes to the library for 3 weeks. Students who opted out were teased and gossiped about, and this intolerance was and still is socially acceptable according to many. Even though the law is supposed to protect these students from learning something they do not believe, it does nothing to protect these students from being social harassed. The law protects gays and lesbians from this form of social harassment, but it does nothing to protect the students who opt out of learning what they don’t personally believe.
Teachers give the second option because the law tells them to, but that it is. I knew many parents who took their kids out of this high school to be home schooled because teachers taught things as absolute truth when they were actually based on personal beliefs. Teachers should teach according to what their degree taught them, not their own personal agendas.
Every single person has personal beliefs, and whether they believe they got these beliefs from a divine authority or not does not matter. All of our beliefs come from somewhere - religious influence, science, logical reasoning, parents, teachers, history, and even from governmental influence. Who is to say whether one authority is more correct than the other? No human on earth has the authority to dictate which is more correct than the other; thus, it is left to the individual to decide and make decisions in accordance to what they believe.
Every person should be allowed to rationally explain what they believe, without receiving a label or a social stimga against them. I cringe every time I hear someone using the word “gay” as an adjective to mean “lame” or “weird” just as I cringe when someone calls someone else a “bigot” or a “hater.” Every person has the right to believe what they want in the classroom setting without being negatively labeled or socially shunned.
Public schools should be a place where students can learn and grow. This should take place in an environment where it is NOT socially/politically acceptable to call people either “fag” or “old-fashioned bigot.” Personal beliefs should not be discussed on school campuses by teachers at all, because teachers are the figures of authority, so when they say their personal beliefs it is like they are saying it as 100% fact. If there are discussions in schools on these issues as dictated by necessity of what the course teaches (i.e. US History classes, debate teams, etc), name-calling should not be allowed on either side. Credible sources and statistics should be used to support why a person wants to act a certain way, NOT random statistics heard on the news. In the social science world, the processes of conducting research is something that is highly scrutinized, and the best research is unbiased research that is replicated over many years of research. Proponents of gay marriage cannot use statistics yet to support their belief that children raised in a gay or lesbian home are just as happy as children raised in heterosexual homes, because long-term effects are not taken into account. It will take a whole generation to finally have credible statistics in that regard. Even though science is not always the most correct authority, it is the most widely accepted because it tries to remove personal biases from research (and this bias applies to both sides of the argument).
I said earlier that no person has the right to say which type of authority is more correct than another. Since conflicts of interest naturally arise over this (I mean, opponents and proponents of gay marriage can’t both have their own way), we have the government institution to help resolve those conflicts. Voting is a way for people to express their opinions, and, in our government, the majority usually dictates how the government responds. The government should not dictate what is right according to marriage, and neither should the media. Individual people should decide how to respond to the conflict that arises over these two separate beliefs - opposing gay marriage and accepting it. In this election, the majority decided to oppose it. In the next election, the people may vote to accept it.
Either way the majority decides, please do not bring personal attacks into this issue. Next election, take time to study the issues without personal bias. Rationally think over the different sides of the issue, and then come to a conclusion. People will do this and come to different conclusions, and that is perfectly acceptable. People have that right to believe differently. There have been hate and intolerance on both sides of this debate, and that has got to end.
Thank you for your time.
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Jesus loves gay people enough to want them to change from their perverted debased mind.
Romans Chapter 1 verse 18 TRUTH now deal with it. The great people of Ca. has spoken no more perverted marriages. Your life style if a joke no matter how you look at it. Those so called priest that molest kids are your people posing a decent people Gay priest same perverted mind so you deal with your own kind. Homosexuality is a Spirtual issue. You can tell a fruit tree from the kind of fruit it produces. Perverted tree perverted fruit. If your life style is so great produce a child, can’t so now what. Deal with it no more perverted marriage. Now go cry because you lost hahahahahahahah.
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Lawsuit Challenging Proposition 8 Filed
hell yes! I hope it gets overturned , my daughter is gay and got married and I’m very happy for my girls and very proud of them and I want them to have there rights just like everyone else does… and yes Here we go Again , we are not going to leave it alone ! And even though its been the second time we voted on this , its going to happen even if we have to vote for a third time ! so you get the hint , we will keep going to court on this matter until it happens…. and its going to happen so except the change …
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
I apologize for the grammatical mistakes in my comment above. I changed the wording in a few sentences, and I didn’t catch a couple verbs and adjectives that needed to be changed to reflect proper English.
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
The world will not end if gay marriage becomes legal. NEWS FLASH: it IS legal in other states and in many other countries. It has been legal for multiple years and the world has not ended.
Oh, and the world population will die out because of gay marriage? Just because there is gay marriage does not mean that straight people can only marry someone of the same sex. I think if there is any procreation issue, it’s that there are too many people in the world. Anyway, I don’t see how my partner and I sitting at home enjoying a quiet evening together watching television prevents a straight couple from procreating down the street or even next door.
Also, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all believe in basically the same God. None of those religions invented marriage. Marriage existed in the pagan empire of Rome, and in pagan ancient Greece. These places were around before Christianity and Islam and they still got married. The American Indians also practiced marriage and they weren’t Jewish, Christian, or Muslum.
If marriage is for the purpose of procreating, then there should be a law that if a couple does not have a child within a year of being married, then their marriage should be annulled. People who can’t have children should not be allowed to get married. People over the age of 50 should also not be allowed to get married.
Understand that if you are to make a claim about marriage, please make sure your claim has validity in fact, not fiction.
If God hates gays, then he also hates shrimp and believes you can sell your daughter into slavery. It’s in the Bible so it must be true. Shrimp eaters are going to hell.
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
so we go around again & it will lose again so for now take you perverted daughters & go home!!!
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
My God! America has proved yet again to be a vile country that is happier to take away rights than allow people to have them! Thank god I live in the UK and have the right to be who I am! And don’t start the whole liberal thing at me as I am a Conservative Party member (and there are LOTS of us) over here in the UK and a Christian too! Get over yourselves don’t go and attack things you don’t understand! Grow up and maybe your country will…. you clearly have a fear of the LGBT community just as you are racist and think that all Muslims want to blow up the world!! OPEN YOUR MIND! The world has changed its OK to be GAY!!!! don’t like it? well why don’t you go and life in the countries where gays are stoned to death or hung just for being in love! Its not a Left wing Right wing issue in the UK and that’s what the USA needs too! Its one thing to keep the rights away but its a totally other thing to TAKE them away…
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Who invented marriage??????? before any humans lived on earth???????Adam & Eve Not Adam & Steve TRUTH!
Genesis
18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [h] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs [i] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [j] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman, [k] ‘
for she was taken out of man.”
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
Deal with it, you wanted your will imposed on us well we won so go home.!!! The People has spoken OUT LOUD!!!!!
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
To Andy O:
I dare you to provide us with a passage from the New Testament where Jesus specifically mentions homosexuality. You can’t because it doesn’t exist. Please don’t put words in Jesus’s mouth. I don’t think he appreciates others speaking falsly in His name.
on November 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Andy O:
Actually Islam believes that Jesus was a prophet. Do your homework. They believe in the same God, they just don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah.
Your comments still don’t change the fact that apparently according to the Bible God hates shrimp and suggests you get fair market value for your daughter when you sell her as a slave. If you are going to take the Bible literally, then you should not be selective about it.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
JD:
Your passage only tells us that God made Eve so that Adam could have sex with her. There’s no mention of marriage. They shall become one in the flesh is sex not marriage.
So where did the American Indians get the idea of marriage if Jews invented it?
And it really doesn’t matter who invented it, it matters that non-religious are allowed to get married because it is not solely a religious ceremony. It is a legal way to protect property and inheritence.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
So I guess we could allow gay marriage, I mean look at Ancient Rome. The proliferation of homosexuality worked for them. Why won’t it work in America?
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Woman caught in adultry which is a sexual sin just like homosexaulity.
John 8:10-12
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Sin is sin Jesus said go & sin no more!!!!
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Romans 1:26-27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
AHHHHHHHHHH Wife
Read verse 22 below
Leviticus 18
Unlawful Sexual Relations
6 ” ‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.
7 ” ‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.
8 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.
9 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
10 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.
11 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.
12 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.
13 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.
14 ” ‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.
15 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.
16 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.
17 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18 ” ‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.
19 ” ‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
20 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.
21 ” ‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [a] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
22 ” ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
23 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
24 ” ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.
29 ” ‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.’ “
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Andy O: Keep fighting the good fight :).
…we obviously live in very troubled times.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
you guys keep talking about the bible. and thats great, but a lot of us arent christian. other than what the bible says, there arent any arguments against gay marriage. the bible is a good story, but its not everyones life tool. the bible was re-written and changed by church leaders thousands of years ago to make it suit thier controling issues. everyone knows that. even scpiptures that jesus himself wrote, like the gospel of st. thomas, werent allowed in the bible because it didnt fit the church leaders demands.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
JD: Thanks for using a passage that says nothing about homosexuals. Adultery has nothing to do with gay marriage and everything to do with straight marriage. My brother’s marriage ended because his wife committed adultery. Although I would have liked to, modern society says it’s not OK to stone her to death. Perhaps if you would like to live in a theocracy then you can be a good stoner. Oh wait, Jesus said not to stone her? Wait, the Bible contradicted itself? But how is that possible? Isn’t the Bible the word of God? Well in reality it was written by many different humans at many different times and they wrote down their interpretation. Even the gospels came out centuries after Jesus walked the Earth.
Andy O: Unfortunately I don’t have the time or desire to even read your long post. And if I read it I would have to break out my Bible to make sure you’re actually quoting the Bible and not some random person.
Oh the Roman Empire fell when the Visigoths attacked the city and it fell. I don’t remember learning that the Visigoth’s were homosexuals. But perhaps they were. A bunch of gays using their military might to overthrow the Roman Empire. Not to mention that the Emperor’s at the time were spending money like you wouldn’t believe. Reminds me of a certain soon to be ex-President.
It boils down to this:
Jesus said, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
I didn’t vote against your right to marry, so why would you do it to me? I think there should be a new prop outlawing straight marriage. Then we’ll be even.
And there are so many religions in the United States that do support gay marriage. Some of them are Christians. So one or two religion’s belief system shouldn’t trump that of others.
And this is my last post. I’m done with this discussion. It’s not a real discussion but just people who will never agree “yelling” at eachother through cyberspace. It’s a waste of everyone’s time. OK it passed. Just know that it’s not over.
Blacks got the right to vote in 1870, but it took until the civil rights act of 1963 for them to actually be able to exercise that right. By that schedule we should have marriage across the whole country by say 2050 or so if not earlier. I’m in it for the long haul and public opinon is swaying to my side. It’s only a matter of time before there are enough votes to make it happen permanently.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
the bottom line is: you cant force another to believewhat you believe. you cant force others to live by the bible. every one isnt christian.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
OK, this is my last post.
angel h: Thanks!
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Prop 8 passed, so now what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about that for TRUTH HISTORICAL FACT, Your gay life stye is not wanted.
CAN YOU READ NO MORE PERVERTED MARRIAGES PERIOD PROP 8 PASSED
YES ON 8 YES ON 8 YES ON 8 YES ON 8
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Hehe so you ask for a verse but don’t have the time or desire to read it. Or maybe you read it but can’t refute it.
Children need role models. One man and one woman is optimal. Sure, there are heroic single parents that raise successful children but I’m sure even they’ll tell you it is extremely difficult. Same-sex marriage will undermine the foundations of our society by eliminating a crucial part (50%)of a child’s needed role models.
My lunch time is over…This’ll be my last post as well. God bless you all…
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
good example jd:
thats real christian.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Angel more like Devil You wrote
angel h said,
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
the bottom line is: you cant force another to believewhat you believe. you cant force others to live by the bible. every one isnt christian
My case exactly
Not everyone is Gay so why try to force your gay perverted values on me & my children.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
In California until the law changes again, that’s correct. However I am already married and Prop 8 is not retroactive. So all the gay couples who were able to get married between June and November will remain married. And those in California who seek to make their union official can travel to Canada, Connecticut, or Massachusettes to get married.
So at least same-sex marriages cannot happen in California for now. I’m sure it will change.
However people who pervert marriage will still be able to do so by getting married on a game show or reality dating show.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
i dont fear god. i love god. church leaders did in fact change the bible. because they viewed themselves as gods.
and isnt it funny that religions that are known for violence are always affraid of anyone different? hmm. . . . .
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
did someone try to make you gay jd? they must be repromanded at once.
honey, we dont want you in our club. you stay straight sweetie. please.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
It won’t becuase Ca has more sense than most of those in Canada, Connecticut, or Massachusettes.
Either way you still have a perverted mind & Prop 8 is still ago.
If you don’t like it move out of the great state of Ca.or better yet move out of the country.
Bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one more question if you are a gay man who don’t like woman or a gay woman who don’t like men why act like something you don’t like gay men act like woman & gay woman act like men.
must be education, sounds like total confusion to me.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
fact: over 90% of gay people were raised by straight people. hmm. . . .
even if you suppress your homosexuality, it still comes out in your kids.
family dynamics: children will live out thier parents secrets.
dont be so small.
on November 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
angel h: Nice one!
And to everyone else: same-sex marriage hasn’t been defeated. It exists in other parts of these United States and it other countries close by. This is merely just one obstacle in a long and just cause that will ultimately prevail.
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Wow. It is a shame that we are spending so much time trying to understand the words written so long ago and trying to understand the will of God. It sure would be great if we had a living prophet on the Earth now to clear up this confusion.
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
explain gay monkeys, butterflies, penguins, dogs, cats, elephants, lions, etc.
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
come on jd. dont they got them there critters down on the farm?
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
jd: Actually I live in NY. It’s in my posting name. Are you some sort of idiot? Can’t you read?
And if you are close minded and want your religion to rule your country then you should move somewhere else. I care about this country and am working to make it better. If people with your mindset were the actual majority then we would probably still have slavery and women would still be inferior to men.
And most straight folk I know didn’t know I was gay until I told them. So I guess that means you act just like me. So you must act like a gay man!
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
I’m a 10 year Army Vet, Special Forces spent 4 tours in Afganistan & Iraq so I’ve fought for & seen some good men die for your freedom, but I will not stand by & see our country corrupted by perverted minds & life styes so you fight your battle & I’ll fight mine see you in the trenches.
Yes on prop 8
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
well i know from reading the bible that:
a. jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
b. the jewish profits are silent about homosexuality.
c. only six or seven of the bibles one million verses refers to same-sex behavior in any way- and none of these verses refers to homosexual orientation as its understood today.
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
historically peoples misinterpretation of the bible has left a trail of suffering bloodshed and death.
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
YES ON 8
It’s the LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Stay in NY
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
dueteronomy 22:13-21
if it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the bible demands that she be executed by stoning imediately.
mark 10:1-12
divorce is strictly forbidden in both testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been diverced.
deuteronomy22:22
if a married person has sex with someone elses husband or wife, the bible that both adulters be stoned to death.
wow. seems us queers are more christian that you christians.
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
No on Prop 8. I am a straight person married with children. I believe everyone despite straight or gay deserve rights. Throughout history homosexuality has always exist. I wouldn’t say anything or go against anything because I believe in Karma and one day D, someone you love dearly will turn out to be something you don’t believe in. There are murderers and people that are actually sick in the mind out there to be more worried about. I just don’t think it’s right to hate something because it’s not what you believe is normal. Nothing in life is normal. Nothing in life is perfect. Just like typical americans, trying to make an ideal person instead of excepting that we live in a world full of different people. No on Prop 8, people that attend church think they’re better than everyone because you believe God washes your sins. Well you still hold hatred in heart so no matter how many times you confess your sins. It will never be wash away.
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by thier creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness…
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
can no one against prop 8 explain gay nature?
too tough?
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Some animals eat their young. Does that make it ok for us as well?
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
the bible also says NOT to eat any part of the pig. how the hell did you all start celebrating jesus’ birthday with ham??????????
leviticus 11:1
on November 5th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Fact: If god wanted us to have same sex marriages, why didn’t he create another man for Adam instead of a woman Eve So that they might multiply & replenish the earth? I’ll tell you why, because if he did, there would be no human race. Marriage between a man and woman is part of gods great design and master plan. Oh, and here is another little tid bit for you. The guilty taketh the truth to be hard.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Well then I guess us gays will see all you haters in hell with us. God shows mercy on the merciful and vengence on the vengeful. See you all in hell!
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
did you just say ‘tid bit’?
yes it was important back then to populate. not now.
just like it was important back then to stone people, and to wear your loin cloth a certain way. not now.
since the planet is already over populated, perhaps you straight people should stop having so many kids and throwing them away for us to adopt.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Gay Nature= debased mind, perverted mind, given over to sinful lust. Dominated by a sinful nature.
Gay life style is a choice, just like anything else, you just continue to make the wrong choices. Doing drugs is a choice should we allow it to continue.
If you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything.
Sorry majority rules, get over.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
any christian who does not follow every every word in the bible verbatum, has no right to tell me i cannot marry my partner. you dont just get to pick and chose the parts that satisfy your lust for control. follow it ALL or dont preach to me.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Proposition 8 protects our children and Voting YES on Proposition 8 does 3 simple things:
It restores the definition of marriage to what the vast majority of California voters already approved and what Californians agree should be supported, not undermined.
It overturns the outrageous decision of four activist Supreme Court judges who ignored the will of the people.
It protects our children from being taught in public schools that ?same-sex marriage? is the same as traditional marriage, and prevents other consequences to Californians who will be forced to not just be tolerant of gay lifestyles, but face mandatory compliance regardless of their personal beliefs .
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
No real christian will claim to be perfect in all aspects of their life. I sin. You sin. We all do. You want someone perfect to preach to you? How about Jesus?
and no response to my eating babies comment? I thought it was quite comical. Opium is natural too…it doesn’t mean it isn’t harmful.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
What Does God Say about Marriage?
Marriage is not an invention of man. God instituted marriage. According to God’s plan, man and woman together form the unit of humanity. A man or a woman alone is only part of an entirety.
“And the Lord God said, ‘It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him’” (Gen. 2:18).
“Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said:
‘This is now bone of my bone
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.’
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” (Gen. 2:22-24)
This text contains several beautiful statements.
Adam received his wife as a gift from God. In a sense it is still true that a man receives his wife from God. Solomon says:
“Houses and riches are an inheritance from fathers,
But a prudent wife is from the Lord” (Proverbs 19:14).
We also see that marriage is good. Solomon says in another place:
“He who finds a wife finds a good thing,
And obtains favour from the Lord” (Proverbs 18:22).
We also see how strong the marriage bond is, so strong that they are no longer two but are melted together as one flesh.
This bond is so strong that it is broken only by death. As long as they live they are one together. They may not separate. Jesus quoted this passage when He was asked about marriage:
“The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, ‘Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?’ And He answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning “made them male and female,” and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.’ They said to Him, ‘Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?’ He said to them, ‘Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery’” (Mat. 19:3-9).
In this passage in Genesis we also see how dependent man and woman are on each other. They need each other. Paul says:
“Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. For as the woman was from the man, even so the man also is through the woman; but all things are from God” (1 Cor. 11:11,12).
Marriage is an institution of God and is a continuation of His work of creation. Sexual desires are God-given. We should view our manliness or womanliness as a gift from God which we receive with thankfulness and strive to keep holy and pure in accordance with His instructions.
To preserve the sanctity of marriage and the well-being of man, God has established certain laws regarding sexual activities. Before we discuss these we must be sure we understand how a marriage comes into being.
First we will discuss some wrong definitions of marriage. Then we will give the definition we find in the Bible.
Marriage is not a sacrament, as is taught in some churches. In the Scriptures, marriage is an institution in society that is of divine origin. It is governed by the laws of God and by the regulations of the society in which one lives to the extent that they do not conflict with the laws of God. A marriage may take place in a church building, and it is certainly in order for Christians to pray and ask God’s blessing on a marriage. But a marriage is not in and of itself a religious ceremony.
Nor is marriage a private agreement between a man and a women. This idea is often used as an excuse for unchastity before marriage. The argument is made: “Although we have not been officially married, we have agreed between ourselves to be married, so actually we are already married.” This idea is contrary to the Scriptures. In the Bible a marriage always takes place according to certain norms of society and always involves other people who serve as witnesses. A marriage is an occurrence before God and before man. A Christian is obligated to abide by the laws of the society in which he lives to the extent that they do not conflict with the laws of God. Paul says:
“Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgement on themselves” (Rom. 13:1,2).
The laws of God and of society are for the purpose of protecting the parties involved and society in general. Thus a marriage is more than a private agreement between a man and a woman.
What constitutes a marriage? In the Scriptures we find various forms of marriages at different times and in different societies, but certain elements are always present.
Examples of marriage formalities: In early times, for example, the groom went to the house of the parents of his bride. There was a marriage feast. Then he took his bride home with him. In the time of Christ the marriage formalities were very complicated. First, the man had to pay a certain sum of money to the parents of the girl. Then there was a period of one year’s betrothal. During that year the two were already bound to one another by legal contract but they were not allowed to live as man and wife until the actual marriage ceremony. It consisted of a great feast that sometimes lasted several days.
Whatever the form, however, the marriage was always a formal occurence at a certain time involving a contract between a man and a woman with other people as witnesses. Only after the requirements were fulfilled were they married.
What is required, according to Scriptures, to preserve the sanctity of marriage?
First, men and women are to remain virgin until marriage. All sexual relations outside of marriage are forbidden by God and are referred to as fornication, a sin which had the death penalty under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant one can be forgiven and purified by the blood of Christ. It is a sin, however, which is extremely damaging to those concerned, to society and to marriage as an institution.
After marriage one is to have sexual relations only with the marriage partner. Sexual relations with any other is adultery, which also earned the death penalty under the Old Covenant. We read in Hebrews 13:4 that God wants marriage to be preserved from the damage caused by these two sins:
“Marriage is honourable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge” (Heb. 13:4).
From this text we see once more that marriage is pure and holy. Fornication and adultery damage marriage, however, and God will hold those who engage in such practices responsible on the day of judgement.
The marriage contract includes sexual responsibilities. Paul says:
“Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control” (1 Cor. 7:3-5).
The wife is to submit to the authority of her husband and the husband is to love his wife as his own body:
“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Saviour of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband” (Eph. 5:22-33).
This does not mean that a man may misuse his authority, because if he loves his wife he will sacrifice for her as Christ did for the church. It does mean, however, that he is the head of the family. As head he also bears the first responsibility. He can provide the needed leadership only if his wife respects and submits to his authority.
God’s regulations relative to marriage are strict. This is because He values marriage highly for the well-being of man. God’s laws and regulations have no other purpose than the ultimate happiness of man. Let us follow the word of God in this matter. Marriage is a gift of God. He will help us to have a good marriage if we obey His word and if we pray for His blessings, help and guidance in our lives.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
What does the Bible say about homosexuality?
There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God’s words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let’s look at what it says.
Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”
1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”
Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
What should be the Christian’s Response to the Homosexual?
Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin and like any other sin, it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross, repented of, and never done again.
As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same you would any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God — even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him same dignity as anyone else you come in contact with. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don’t compromise your witness for a socially acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.
____________________
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
No one has to live in bondage with an abnormal life of homosexuality nor any other abnormal behavior. No one has to be controlled by pornography. No one has to have evil thoughts plague their minds. There is a way out through what Jesus has done for us. He loves sinners and wants to free us from any evil practices. He will empower those who cry out for deliverance to get free and stay free. Here are the steps you must take to get free:
(1.) Make a total commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. Be willing to turn your life completely over to the will of God and yield to His plan for your life. This means you must be willing to do anything, go anywhere and give up any thing as He leads. Remember, God will never lead you to do anything that is not in agreement with the Bible. You can trust God. He created you and has a better plan for your life.
(2.) Your must pray and read your Bible daily. You must study and apply the Word of God to overcome Satan’s attacks. The way that you resist the attacks of the devil is by quoting the Word of God to him. When the devil came to tempt Jesus, He simply quoted the Word to him. Good praise tapes will also be of a great help when you are tempted. Put one on and start singing along with it.
(3.) You must pray for and seek out a strong Bible believing group of Holy Spirit filled people. You will need their help and fellowship. As you humble yourself and seek help, the Lord will deliver you. Ask God to lead you to someone that can pray the prayer of deliverance for you, as you probably will need to be set free from a demon. You should also seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit as you will need His power to get free and to remain free.
(4.) You must cut off all sources and relationships that would lead you back into sin. The Bible tells us to flee fornication (sexual sins). You must get out of any corrupt entanglements, or areas that you know will be a temptation to you. If you have been hooked on internet pornography subscribe to an Internet Service Provider that will filter out the pornography for you. Destroy all evil books and videos.
(5.) Should you slip or fall back occasionally, repent and get right back up and go on with God. Do not allow the devil to condemn you once you have repented. Put your sin under the blood of Jesus. He will strengthen you and you will win this battle because of the Lord’s promise to you. Remember, He loves you and is there to help you. Run to Him when you get in trouble, never run from Him. He will not ever give up on you! We too, will be standing with you for your total healing and deliverance. Philippians 1:6: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”
(6.) You must forgive everyone that has ever hurt you. You can only do this through the power of God. You must by a simple act of your will voice the forgiveness and then the Lord will give you the feeling of forgiveness. This may be a while in coming but just keep forgiving when you think of any wrong that has been done to you. The Lord will give you His love for those people who have wronged you.
PRAYER FOR DELIVERANCE
Finally we want to pray for you right now if you need it:
Dear Heavenly Father,
We come to you in the mighty name of Jesus and we ask that you touch this one right now, first of all with your love and forgiveness. Lord, wash their sins away. Wash away all the uncleanness and guilt. Lord we ask you to free them right now from the powers of darkness.
Now, we speak to Satan and his demons and we command them to leave in the name of Jesus! Satan, this one is no longer under your power. The blood of Jesus has set them free! We resist you and you must flee! This one belongs to God and you have no more authority over them! Be gone!
Dear Lord, thank you that you have set this one free and we are believing that you will lead them to the right people that will help them to walk out this deliverance. We break every chain of iniquity over their life and cancel every evil word that has been spoken against them. We declare they will walk in your victory and that you will enable them to do it. Lord, fill them with your Holy Sprit and guide them in the ways of God! We speak blessing and success to them. Most of all, we pray that they will feel your love for them right now. We ask this all in the precious name of Jesus. Amen.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Your children are going to learn about same-sex marriage if Prop 8 passed or not. If you believe that it is wrong, then you need to teach that to your kids. They will learn about same-sex marriage now probably even more in social studies classes and I am sure they are all openly discussing it in class. It may even be the subject of debate class. Not to mention what they will hear and read on the media. There is nothing to protect your children from. If you are so against it, just teach them it’s wrong. Just like teaching them smoking is wrong. They will still see other kids smoking and other celebrities smoking on television. Do they need to be protected from this exposure or simply educated by their parents? If that’s what you believe that that’s what you teach at home. You don’t try to completely ban other people from making that choice for themselves. It’s your choice not to get married to someone of the same-sex and it’s my choice to get married to someone of the same-sex. I believe I was born this way, but nonetheless it is my choice. It’s my choice to take a drink of alcohol or not and it’s my choice to eat ice cream or chicken for dinner. It’s the government’s job to allow tax paying citizens to make those choices for themselves, not to legislate thought and feeling. Fried food is bad for you, so maybe we should have a Prop banning that especially from our schools since childhood obesity is rampant in this country. And the parent’s aren’t responsible, it must be the school’s fault.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
“Does God love everyone or just Christians?”
Answer: There is a sense in which God loves everyone in the whole world (John 3:16; 1 John 2:2; Romans 5:8). This love in not conditional – it is based only on the fact that God is a God of love (1 John 4:8,16). God’s love for all of mankind results in the fact that God shows His mercy by not immediately punishing people for their sins (Romans 3:23; 6:23). If God did not love everyone, we would all be in hell right now. God’s love for the world is manifested in the fact that He gives people the opportunity to repent (2 Peter 3:9). However, God’s love for the world does not mean that He will ignore sin. God is also a God of justice (2 Thessalonians 1:6). Sin cannot go unpunished forever (Romans 3:25-26).
The most loving act of eternity is described in Romans 5:8, “But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Anyone who ignores God’s love, who rejects Christ as Savior, who denies the Savior who bought him (2 Peter 2:1) – that person will be subject to God’s wrath for eternity (Romans 1:18), not His love (Romans 6:23). God loves everyone unconditionally in that He shows mercy to everyone. God conditionally loves only those who place their faith in His Son for salvation (John 3:36). Only those who believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will experience God’s love for eternity.
Does God love everyone? Yes. Does God love Christians more than He loves non-Christians? No. Does God love Christians differently than He loves non-Christians? Yes. God loves everyone equally in that He is merciful to all. God only loves Christians in that Christians have His eternal grace and mercy – the promise of His forever love in Heaven. It is God’s love for all that should draw us all to receive His eternal love.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
To those who are continuing to post Bible passages: it is your choice to believe and worship as a Christian. It is anyone else’s choice to believe and worship whatever faith they want or to not believe in any faith. That is the beauty of the United States of America. We have the choice to believe what we want. So those of us who are gay should have the choice to marry our same-sex partners just as straight people choose to marry opposite sex partners. I won’t force you to marry someone of the same sex and you don’t force me to marry someone of the opposite sex.
Quoting the Bible to someone who is an atheist doesn’t mean anything to them. Your argument isn’t valid to a Buddhist of Hindu either because they don’t have the same belief system.
So let bygones be bygones and let everyone choose their own religion and their own spouses. My spousal choice has absolutely nothing to do with your spousal choice or your children or your parents or your siblings or your grandparents or your grandchildren. It’s how I wish to live my life and I will live it this way and I will not interfere with your life.
Live and let live.
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
I heard that dog and cat will be able to get married too. Honestly, if your gay and want to get married go ahead but don’t force me to agree with you lifestyle….
on November 5th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
You don’t have to agree with it. I don’t agree with your lifestyle and I am not proposing any legislation banning Christianity. You believe what you want, just let me believe what I want and have the same rights under the law.
Religion aside here it is in plain English:
Why do California same-sex couples want access to marriage?
Access to marriage is a necessary part of achieving equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) families. Beside the 1,138 rights and responsibilities that are bestowed on married couples from the federal government, there are another 1,324 rights and responsibilities that come from California State government with marriage. These state protections include medical decision-making authority, inheritance rights, immunity from having to testify against a spouse in court, access to Family Court for orders of protection from domestic violence, divorce and the ability to adopt children as a couple. Many of these protections (for example, a Workers Compensation death benefit for a surviving spouse) can be achieved only through marriage or some other governmental recognition of a family and cannot be obtained by any legal document a family may create in an attempt to protect itself, like a will or living will.
LGBT families need these rights and responsibilities as much as any other family and expect equal access to the structures government has created to support families in times of need. This reason for marriage, of course, is in addition to the reason that most people get married: because two people in love want to make a civil, social and spiritual statement to themselves, their loved ones and their community.
Is civil marriage the same thing as religious marriage?
No. Civil marriage is a relationship sanctioned and licensed by the state. It does not require the blessing of any religious institution. Religious marriage is the spiritual blessing of a relationship by a church, mosque, synagogue or other religious institution. A religious marriage in California is not legally binding on the married couple unless they also secure a state marriage license. No religious institution can be required to marry two people even if their marriage is licensed by the state, a fact that is explicitly stated in the current marriage equality legislation.
Basically what we are asking for has absolutely nothing to do with your religion. Your religious arguments mean nothing as we are asking for civil rights, not religious rights.
on November 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Scott– What are you talking about?
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
we do eat young. just not our own.
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
to one sane christian-
so you sin and we all sin. but you have the right to tell me which sins are ok and which arent? nowhere, and i mean NOWHERE in the bible does it say same sex marriage is a sin. nor does it quote jesus saying ANYTHING at all about same sex anything.
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
nowhere in the bible does it say same sex marriage is a sin. nowhere in the bible does it quote jesus christ as saying anything at all about same sex anything.
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
how is your traditional marriage affecting my life?
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
This prop passed because of FEAR. Most people in California don’t care who you choose to marry, they just dont want to be effected by it. Their children learning that marriage is between any two people (Men & Men, Women & Women) who love each other & not…Mommies and Daddies…thoughts are that their children could be persuaded or confused. Children are impressional and most people don’t want anyone teaching their children something they don’t agree with morally.
If you want the prop to pass…Oraganize…Rally…Vote! This state is full of Democrats, Liberals & other free thinking people. Read all of the information and inform the public on the truth…make sure that the prop is clearly written and has no loopholes.
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
no one can tell others that they HAVE to practice any certain religion. the only fight with same sex marriage is because the bible says its not ok. like eating pig, and wearing clothes made of 2 different materials. but we all arent christian. the christian bible is just a book to me. i am a different religion. you cant say that i cant have same sex marriage because you are christian.
on November 5th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
can noone answer my question?
how is your traditional marriage affecting my life?
just the fact that you exist and have a piece of paper saying married on it.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
i guess thats a tough question to try to manipulate.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
i am in such a state of shock knowing that this prop passed….
everything aside, all that california did was deny two peoples right to share everything that they can. who is anyone to deny this right? if you believe homosexuality is wrong then you have the right to think that and vice versa. people are who they are because thats who they are and no one can change that. america is slowly going down the shitter… whatever happened to freedom?
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
You know what? I’m so tired of this. It’s amazing how incredibly intolerant both sides look at each other. I wish we could all calm down. But we can’t. Both sides are so passionate about their view. I wish there was a middle ground, but I don’t think there is. People are misquoting like crazy to prove their point of view. It would help if people were a little more informed b/f they spouted off. And I guess that’s why there are not calm discussions on any site’s–just constant lashing rhetoric.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
how does your traditional hetero marriage affect my gay life.
just the marriage, not the bible. just that you have a marriage certificate, as opposed to just ‘living together’.
how does that affect my life? huh?
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
i also just wanted to add that this prop had nothing to do with education…. they dont even teach marraige in school!!! in elementary school you get the puberty talk, in HS you get the safe sex talk and if you are in a private religious school… MAYBE you will get the marraige class. i took this class in a catholic school and all i learned about, other than the vows, was how to do a budget for 5 years of marraige. Same sex marraiges werent even allowed but they never told the gay ppl in our class they werent allowed to do the project, they had to learn how to budget too and how to set up insurances, gain credit etc etc…. pretty much everything two ppl who are spending thier lives together have to learn. i cant believe that my private catholic school 4 years ago was more tolerant than california yesterday.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
i thought one of you would have an answer.
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
no one?
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
come on………
on November 5th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
ha ha. thats so funny.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
I think they’re just not reading anymore. Once you take religion out of the argument there is no rebuttal. It’s more fun for them to talk about fire and brimstone then discuss the issue on a purely legal level.
on November 5th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
yea. thats the truth.
on November 6th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Just look at the number of bible quotations. Makes it pretty obvious that they’re injecting religion into the government. Why don’t we do it some more? Then we can be like the middle east! We can even kill fags just for being fags!
on November 6th, 2008 at 1:55 am
Well folks, we all have a choice. We can choose to be resistant to change and then be bitter and unprepared when it is becomes a fact and way of life. Or we can choose to be tolerant and prepare ourselves and our kids for the future.
The current election has shown that the younger generation is more tolerant. The older people are resistant to change. Our kids will no doubt grow up in a world where there is no difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality. A lot of progress has been made on this front. I guess lots of people expected Prop 8 to fail but it didn’t. It’s actually good that it didn’t fail. It gives people the opportunity to continue to canvass for gay rights. As a result more people get educated and the victory whenever it will come will be much stronger. It’s better to win such a case with less chance of it getting overturned than to have a narrow victory.
The good thing about this election process is that the people who voted ‘no’ on Prop 8 are less likely to change their mind in future elections. The change will come from the people who voted ‘yes’ on Prop 8. The gay movement will continue to get more support. There will be some people who will never accept this but then again there are still some people who will still not vote for a black person! But it *will* gain more support.
When gay marriage does become a reality it will have enough support to ensure that it will become a way of life. The younger generation will ensure this. The older generation will fade away.
I am a heterosexual but am preparing for a gay future. I hope my daughter will not turn out to be gay but I better prepare for it.
I am disappointed with some of the comments from the gay supporters. Please exhibit some tolerance. This is an opportunity to go out there and educate people. Some people will not budge from their beliefs. Ignore them. There are a lot of people out there who are willing to have a conversation even if they are initially hesitant. Make it your mission to spread the word on love, equality and tolerance. The change will come, it may take some time but it will come!
For all those people who strongly oppose gay marriage, I hope your children will not challenge your belief. You have a choice! A choice to embrace the future and hence be prepared for it. No one will force you to change your belief. It’s your choice!
on November 6th, 2008 at 8:42 am
I am sick of these people forcing their disgusting lifestyle choice down our throats all the time. Why do they think we want to support them in their bizarre mating rituals and sexual habits? Everywhere I go I am assailed by the stench of their sexuality and it has to stop. NO AMOUNT of exposure to it will ever stop me feeling sick when I think of the perversions they get up to in bed. Straight people make me puke. Oops, sorry, didn’t mean that I love them really but it got you for a moment didn’t it.
on November 6th, 2008 at 10:37 am
What I meant to say is; I don’t want to be tolerated or accepted. I don’t want your approval or your validation. I am fully self-actualised. I am very happy. There was a time, when I was at school and being mercilessly bullied (to the point of attempting suicide) by straight kids, that I really wanted to be straight. I would hear the worst things come out of peoples mouths. Things like “why don’t you fucking die you fucking aids victim c*nt”. From the mouth of a 12 year old, screamed inches from your face on the school bus. It is pretty hard to bear that sort of thing when you are 14 years old and have never even said the word “gay” in case somebody, somehow, made a connection and then “they all would know”. I certainly had never ever tried to tell a soul, not even whispered it into my pillow. I was so gentle, so timid and scared. Such a polite and well spoken child. I was utterly defenceless. Well this went on for years until one day, in front of the bedroom mirror with a handful of sleeping tablets I thought to myself “is this it? Is this all life has to offer me? Is this the way it is going to be for ever?” I took them and very nearly died but was found by my grandfather. On his birthday. I cried and said I was sorry to be such a disappointment. I still didn’t tell. A few days later, back at school, everyone was weird with me. I didn’t know a few days had gone by as I had been in hospital in a coma and had been subsequently taken home whilst sedated, and put in my bed. I woke up normally and went to school. The bullying started again. Eventually I had had enough and snapped. I beat the three of them up and have never been the victim again. I stopped all the bullyingon that school bus. Most kids are not as strong as me but all gay kids will have gone through something similar. So I would like to say a big thank you. To all those sweet and kind straight people who did that to me. Thank you for perpetuating that, now, for other sweet, gentle and very scared and terribly lonely gay kids. I am still not over it but am, as far as everyone knows, super-succesful, totally out, very happy with my partner (we are getting married - I define what it is called thank you) and 36. And no, I won’t be marching round with a gun taking my revenge on everyone - I am not straight. As for you people that were at school, any school, all schools; I hope you have to answer for what you did one day. I hope, though I don’t believe in “him” or “her”, that your god will say to you; “What you did was very wicked. You really hurt some blameless and totally helpless people. Shame on you. I forgive you”. He might, but I don’t know if I can.
on November 6th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Everyone wants what they don’t have. I’m secretly hoping that there will be a proposition on the next election to outlaw straight marriages, so my girlfriend will stop pressuring me. The only reason to have the gov’t involved in our religious affairs is for tax reasons.
I want the government to sanctify festivus.
on November 6th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
All of you who are angry at the supposedly hate filled straight people should shift your blame to Gavin Newsome. He was just a little bit too arrogant with his “whether you like it or not” speech. Maybe next time he will be more contrite when making public speeches. Yes on 8 will stand!!
on November 6th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Gavin’s speech was crap, agreed. He probably swayed many on the fence people. Arrogance never wins audiences.
I guess Obama’s speech about “Change” was true. Who would have thought he was speaking about conservative views. I think his next slogan will be “TAX”, and “SPEND”.
(For the record not a conservative republican here, I think both parties are terrible. The both answer to special interest as opposed to the good of all. (Obama had a better slogan, and running mate).
Long live Nader. Think outside the box.
on November 6th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
*They both answer….. oops
on November 6th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
I am so pleased that Prop 8 passed. The people have spoken regarding this, but due to corrupt judges, they overturn the decision. What right do these judges have to overturn the people’s decision? Again, the people have spoken and said they don’t want gay marriage legalized.
If gay people want to be gay, go be gay where it’s legal.
This is a matter of principle, the more television shows swearing, pornography, same sex relationships, the more people are willing to accept it as acceptable. This will errode America and take it down the same street Europe is headed, the crapper. That’s my two bits.
on November 6th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
How about if prop 8 supporters go where gay marriage is still strongly illegal?
Atheist heterosexuals can get married.
Would yes on 8 supporters also vote yes on a constitutional ammendment banning atheists from marrying? I mean, obviously their marriages are not sacred. In fact, they choose to have a non-sacred marriage. Obviously you cannot make this law in the US because it is explicitly unconstitutional.
However, pretend we were in a different country, where more power was given to voters than the constitution. Would you support a ban on atheist marriages because they are not sacred?
on November 7th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Its useless trying to appeal to these people’s senses - they clearly have none. It is not about equality, nor is it about fairness. It is about them having the right to dictate what they regard as normal and what they regard as perversion. They have abdicated total responsibility for their own lives by relying on the fact that they can repent on tehir death-bed or on some ridiculous “day of judgment” for all the sins they perpetrated on other humans - even if it turns out that their so called god tells them “actually, you were wrong about gay people”. They never accept responsibility for their own lives because most things are in god’s power yet assume that you somewhow chose to be gay or were recruited by a paedophile. The sub-text of all straight people’s understanding of gays is based on two wrong and deeply offensive assumptions; that all gay people are paedophiles and that all gay people chose their sexuality.
on November 7th, 2008 at 9:00 am
This bullcrap proposal makes me even more PROUD to be Canadian!! It absolutely blows my mind that a seemingly modern and diverse state, like California, could even allow this issue on the ballot. I was married this past summer, to a man. The following day, I was a bridesmaid in marriage between two of my female friends. It was one of the proudest days of my life. To be standing in support of two people who are madly in love and truly meant to be together, what an amazing honor. I remind myself every day, just how lucky i am to live in a nation, where this union is supported.
on November 8th, 2008 at 12:56 am
My hats off to Starsarebent, Kurt, Grant, D, Lili, Stephanie, Jose, RK, Anna Carter and whomever else I may have not mentioned! I have three daughters and I do not want them to witness same sex affection in public. I dont want those morals imposed on them. DJ…..how is my beliefs (or should I say the whole state of California, majority rules, not once BUT TWICE) imposed on other people? You’re the one asking and the majority is telling you….NO! This is not just beliefs, but government! Let’s not forget the fact that in 2003 California law already gives gays registered as domestic partners nearly all the state rights and responsibilities of married couples when it comes to such things as taxes, estate planning and medical decisions. That law is still in effect. What more do you want? Don’t ask for the little piece of paper that my husband and I have that gives us the same rights you already have! It’s bad enough you had to whine about it and find a panel of judges to throw out the 2004 overwhelming decision of no to same sex marriage!
on November 12th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Amber. I dare say you are some loathsome, fat little troll who thinks the world and his husband gives a damn about you and your children. I imagine that when your kids (you probably only refer to them as “children” when you want to use them as capital in a tirade) reach an age whereby they know the meaning of shame they will see you in a full and unflattering light.
What spite makes you want to impose your will on someone elses relationship? What hatred and revulsion do you feel so that you think you have the right to demand a say over something that does not concern you? Did you once, when you were “growing up” (in inverted commas because clearly you are deeply emotionally immature) get excited over a woman and now feel internalised revulsion which you cant deal with so you have to hate those who got over it? Lots of straight people like gays too - hence the voting numbers - you only just won. This time.
You seem to be under the impression that because you have children you can make all sorts of judgments on, and demands of, other people’s relationships - chiefly gay people - without having the decency to turn the spotlight on mountains of immorality, pain and suffering that straight people inflict on the world.
Do gay people start wars? Do gay people inflict genital mutilation on hundreds of millions of females? Do gay people rape and murder entire towns of people in Africa or indeed anywhere a war is going on? Do gay people beat up innocent kids walking home alone? Do gay people exploit hundreds of millions of poor people around the world? Do gay people kill, maim, destroy, fight with, burn and pillage the world?
No.
Do gay people work in hospitals, or as lawyers, in banks, shops, factories, bars, as guides and in fact every other type of job there is? Are we your friends? Don’t say you don’t know any gay people - it is a cliche common in the world to hear “some of my friends are gay but.” We must be some of your family - that is if you didn’t cut us off when we told you our truth.
Gay people are there for a lot of the good in this world but we are very rarely involved in all the crap and pain and misery that is inflicted on the world. No, that is the preserve of straight people, and religion. You people are all filled with hate, envy and greed. You need to take a long look at yourselves before you tell gay people how to live their lives because from where I stand it is you who is deeply immoral, disgusting, hate filled and full of anger.
on November 12th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
One question Amber; if, as you say, the state already grants pretty much full marriage rights to gay people, what are you opposed to? What did you vote against?
You didn’t say you were opposed to rights, just marriage. You did say you were opposed to public displays of affection though - which seems a little contradictory.
Surely these inconsistencies betray the fact that you are just a bigot.
A simple, albeit very slim, majority does not mean that something is right. That is what we have laws for. For example, you are in a very small minority of people who have three girls. You are helping to overpopulate the world. You are a leech and you are helping to starve the world of its resources.
on November 12th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Oops went off message there. What I meant to say is that, Amber, the state protects your minority right to keep “trying for a boy”. Admit it, you did didn’t you…
You think girls are worth less than boys. Tut tut.
on November 12th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
I…. I had no idea that prop 8 passed until now. Its funny… the whole time I heard about this ridiculous prop 8 i figured…”well thats just silly, no one is going to let that pass, especially not californians, that just doesnt make any sense!” I am moving to L.A in january.. and i must say… this kind of places a dark cloud over an exciting time for me. My questions is… how was this proposition even brought up? Gays were allowed to get married… how have we started taken rights away? next will blacks have to go to different school than the whites? I just… i’m flabberghasted. It’s like.. in the past 2 months the whole world as taken 2 steps forward and now 10 steps back. …. im disgusted. disgusted to the point of intense disturbance. I am honestly losing faith in humankind. I don’t understand close minded people. I just.. i have no sympathy for them. ….who gives a shit if someone you dont know gets married to another person that you dont know and will never meet, and they happen to be of the same sex? WHY DO YOU CARE? honetly! WHY! who gives a shit? and dont throw your stupid bible at me. if jesus was all that fantastic as you say he is.. i bet he would have no problem with a person getting married to a person he or she loved, no matter the sex. and thats beside the point… HOW IS GAY MARRIAGE HURTING YOU? HOW HOW HOW! give me a straight answer. like… just tell me how it is affecting your life. ….. you have no answer, cause its not. i feel like yelling or proving the close minded people wrong will do nothing… its very rare that you can open a person eyes when they have glued them shut. all i have to say is… grow up, focus on your own lives, im sure you all have a ridiculous amount of faults within yourselves to focus on rather than focusing on who is marrying who. i know ive been rambling.. but im sorry, i dont think i can find the right words to express how upset and disgusted i am at people who voted for prop 8. youre wrong. we all know it. you should be ashamed.
on November 12th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
k but no back to my original point. how was this even allowed? next election can i put “women are no longer allowed to have blonde hair.” … i just dont get how this was put on the ballot? how can we take away rights? can we put “all jews should be burned” on the ballot? ….. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? ugh. someone give me hope please! …. at least we have obama. .. o man… i dont know what i would have done if he had lost.
on December 2nd, 2008 at 3:47 pm
i really dont see how it is anyone’s busseness in the first place. why chould you have the choice to grant someone the human right of marrage when it most likley has nothing to do with you what so ever. who are you to make that choice? how dose it really effect you unless you the one wlking down the isle? IT DOSNET!!! get a grip people!!! this is insanity!! you claim your an american and you stand for “life, liberty, and the persuite of happeyness”. it’snt he persute of love and tryign to be as normal as every other coupal within the words persute of happeyness? face it this never should have been up to a vote in the first place, because weather we are gay, strate, black, white, maile of femail… we are all human, and we all deserve the right to love who we want to love to the full extent of marrage
on December 3rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm
I am sorry all of you are feeling so badly toward the conservatives in California. Unfortunately for you, they are the majority for now and they have spoken. I have no problem if someone decides to be in a same sex relationship, that is their choice. Marriage is something completely different though. This is much bigger than just a question of whether or not society should be more tolerant of the homosexual lifestyle. Over past years we have seen unrelenting pressure from advocates of that lifestyle to accept as normal what is not normal, and to characterize those who disagree as narrow-minded, bigoted and unreasonable. Such advocates are quick to demand freedom of speech and thought for themselves, but equally quick to criticize those with a different view and, if possible, to silence them by applying labels like “homophobic.” In at least one country where homosexual activists have won major concessions, we have even seen a church pastor threatened with prison for preaching from the pulpit that homosexual behavior is sinful. Will Religious freedom be trampled if we allow this movement to overcome how the majority of society lives and acts?
There’s another point that can be made on this. Let’s not forget that for thousands of years the institution of marriage has been between a man and a woman. Until quite recently, in a limited number of countries, there has been no such thing as a marriage between persons of the same gender. Suddenly we are faced with the claim that thousands of years of human experience should be set aside because we should not discriminate in relation to the institution of marriage. When that claim is made, the burden of proving that this step will not undo the wisdom and stability of millennia of experience lies on those who would make the change. Yet the question is asked and the matter is put forward as if those who believe in marriage between a man and a woman have the burden of proving that it should not be extended to some other set of conditions.
I hope this was not too strong of language; I don’t want anyone to retaliate with hatred please. I just want those that have different belief systems than myself to understand where one person from the conservative party is coming from. Please respond with your questions and concerns. I want an open dialogue. Look forward to hearing from someone.
on December 5th, 2008 at 2:58 am
Lol.
on December 22nd, 2008 at 1:01 am
PSF, wow “loathsome, fat little troll who thinks the world and his husband gives a damn about you and your children.” coming from someone who wont even identify himself by name? First the majority is not male with a husband. That, I must say. you are wrong about! Second, I am appalled that you believe you can somehow identify someones physical appearance based on a comment they made or a specific view they percieve. If that isnt immaturity and complete ignorance at its best, I don’t know what is.
For the record, if you consider a 5′9″ 115lb female a fat troll, I am rather worried at what your consideration of a real fat troll would be.
As for refering to my kids as children, I do not believe, nor does the law, that twin 10 year olds and a 6 year old qualify as anything other than the above mentioned. However, at 10 years old, they do have the ability to comprehend shame and unflattering light. I can tell you based on your ignorance and immaturity, you would be classified and placed under said qualifications.
You mention, “what spite makes you want to impose your will on someone elses relationship?” Is that not a contradiction? What spite are you carrying your will on someone elses relationship, or marriage certificate? Again, what hate and revulsion do YOU feel that you think you have the right to demand something from everyone else? From something that does not concern you?
The law states marriage is between a man and woman, therefore, this does not concern you? So much contradiction in your views!
Again, for the record, I DO have friends that are gay and lesbians, they know how I feel. That does not affect how I feel about them as a person, or persons. I dont care what you do in your life! However when you say hence the voting numbers, you only just won, this time. You are wrong again! This isnt the first time, and I believe if you really live in California, you would know that already.
I dont feel in any way shape or form, I have any right to pass judgement, because I have kids. That is not my job, nor would I want that responsibility. The “children” I have are plenty of responsibilty. Speaking of which, until you are in that place in your life, a parent, you would never begin to understand what my role, or job is as a parent. You could not fathom nor comprehend it for that matter.
You cannot classify any class, majority or minority as never comitting any such crime. Stating gays have never committed murder, rape, is again being very ignorant. Lets not forget Jeffrey Dahmer, or Robert Casey……just a couple off the top of my head, were they not gay? That was a horrible move to go there, because you could never say that any one type of group is better, or not better than the other. For someone who thinks my view on life is that the world really gives a damn about myself, my husband and kids, you are so mistaken, I have just barely scratched the surface.
As for Paul T, no you are very wrong in the whole, girls are less than boys scenario, or I wouldnt be here typing right now. If that classification were true, I would be barefoot, pregnant, with no rights, etc.
As I am sure you read above, I have twins, only two pregnancies. I have been blessed with girls. To be honest, I wouldnt even know what to expect with boys. Especially when they write comments such as yours and the gentlemen who has to hide behind the letters PSF.
on December 23rd, 2008 at 8:56 am
Amber - who’s hiding. Print your name and address if your not.
on December 23rd, 2008 at 8:57 am
Amber. You didn’t like my venemous tirade did you? It was full of anger and hate. Welcome to my world.
on December 23rd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Tom, are you PSF?
Paul, welcome to your world? dont you think this world is already filled with enough hate and anger? Why join it? Ever heard of the phrase, you cant always get what you want. I believe the rolling stones even wrote a song about it. We could all wish for something we dont have, why not just be happy with what was givin to us? It could always be worse.